Are you playing pure AoS rules?

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Lord hajjij
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Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Lord hajjij »

Have people been playing true AoS rules?

+ Are you rolling to place terrain in each quadrant and rolling for terrain type? From there, have you tried dividing the table up based on the wishes of the dice roll winner? Or are you just splitting the board 50/50 like a battle line?
+ Have you tried any scenarios?
+ Are you deploying as per the rules, or have you invented some comp like a model/wound limit?
+ Have you brought in any house rules?
+ Are you having fun?

I'm asking because poking around online, it seems that many people are trying to bring in a comp to this game, but I've been having some of the most epic and fun battles when playing the rules as written. So I wanted to see if anyone else had given the "true" rules (terrain/deployment and setup especially) a true go and what they're thoughts are?

I personally think that having a "wound count" makes this game terrible. It's much better when using the deployment rules as written and bringing in scenarios, whether sudden death, something in the books, or something you make up. Also, I've been having A LOT more fun when using terrain special rules than just having it on the board. I strongly encourage you to give this a shot.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Daeron »

The only house rule that we have consistently applied thus far is measuring from the base instead of the model. We have played random army mashes and the starter box campaign (well the first battles).
Due to lack of time and logistics, we haven't completed the starter campaign yet, but we plan on playing it a couple of times. One buddy bought the first AoS campaign book and we'll be looking into that to play those campaigns.

I'm also looking into theories I could use to build or generate scenarios. I did propose to my group a very simple point system, not with the intention of following it strictly and using it as a comp mechanic, but simply to avoid having to bring all your miniatures... It also aims to be slightly better indication of army size than model count. It's intentionally vague to stay within the spirit of the game. I'm not sure if we'll keep that system, even. It's just to adapt more easily, coming from 8th. Right now we have very little intuition on what makes a good army and a balanced fight anyway.

So far, our battles haven't been less balanced than our 8th ed battles.
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Lord hajjij
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Lord hajjij »

Daeron wrote:I did propose to my group a very simple point system, not with the intention of following it strictly and using it as a comp mechanic, but simply to avoid having to bring all your miniatures... It also aims to be slightly better indication of army size than model count. It's intentionally vague to stay within the spirit of the game. I'm not sure if we'll keep that system, even. It's just to adapt more easily, coming from 8th. Right now we have very little intuition on what makes a good army and a balanced fight anyway.


I'd be interested in hearing what your simple system is.

I do agree that it's been a bit tough to go from a points system to AoS, but so far we've had really balanced games, mainly because the person who stops deploying first has a reason to do so based on his battle plan, and then the other person then has a final chance to react to his setup. The result is usually a fair game.

I also acknowledge that our gaming group is definitely not filled with "power gamers", so I can't speak to having people like count the models on the other side and putting 1 model less than 1/3rd more models than the opponent, and things like that. It hasn't happened, but I can see how it could potentially be a problem.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Icon hack »

Lord hajjij wrote:Have people been playing true AoS rules?

+ Are you rolling to place terrain in each quadrant and rolling for terrain type? From there, have you tried dividing the table up based on the wishes of the dice roll winner? Or are you just splitting the board 50/50 like a battle line?

Mostly yes. I say mostly because I do have some limited terrain pieces available, and we have generally limited the special terrain features to no more than 2 per game (randomly determined). We have not limited the starting area in any way, but so far we have always been traditional about it, choosing to use the standard battle-line setup in each case.
Lord hajjij wrote:+ Have you tried any scenarios?

No, as a matter of fact, I have not seen any official scenarios. I'd be interested in seeing any that are available to the public.

Lord hajjij wrote:+ Are you deploying as per the rules, or have you invented some comp like a model/wound limit?

At first we limited the total number of models, number of characters and number of monster and war machines. The more we've played though, the more apparent it's becoming that there are balances inherent to the system in regards to characters and unit types, so we have only continued to use a total number of model caps. But this is done more for a desire to keep games to a reasonable time limit, and not so much for balance purposes. We are finding that <65 models per side generally lets us finish a game in about 2 hours.

Lord hajjij wrote:+ Have you brought in any house rules?

Just that we are very relaxed about how we measure things out, and we have allowed plenty of proxy substitution so that we can try out some of the units we don't have models for.

Lord hajjij wrote:+ Are you having fun?

Yes, we are having a great amount of fun. Probably moreso than we ever had with WHFB, to be honest.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Persuader »

I played 4 games so far, using 100 wounds lists.

Doc vs Woc
Doc vs Ogres
De vs HE
& Doc vs Skaven

I had 3 fun (pretty close games) but against skaven with a pure Nurgle list (no Epidimus) i got creamed before turn 2.

Shooting seemed way to powerful. So we made house rules that you can't shoot when you are in a combat yourself.

I'm playing another 2 games this weekend with Sigmarines/Lizerds against LoC & HE. 100 wounds
what we are trying now is just using a list-judge. We both send are lists to another mate and he has to decide
if the lsts are a close match.

Still trying out different things
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Lord hajjij »

Would you be able to explain why you are trying to keep a wound limit? I'm genuinely curious. Just force of habit? By doing this, you're actually unbalancing the armies.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Daeron »

Lord hajjij wrote:I'd be interested in hearing what your simple system is.


Every scroll costs 1 point and gives you the minimum allowed model count. So you get 10 Dreadspears for 1 point, but only 5 BG's for 1 point. You're allowed to make a 20 model BG unit, of course, but that costs 4 points.
For single model units/monsters/heroes, we took 1 point per 5 wounds (considering making it per 3 wounds, but 5 works).
So a Dreadlord matches 5 BGs or 10 Dreadspears, 10 Corsairs, etc.
It's not imposed as a hard limit though, just as a guideline. Like "we'll play around 10 points".
The simplicity avoids having to look at an external reference, and since it ranks so many units on the same point level, it's tempting to just grab a few things and try things out instead of computing points.

Why it works, so far, is probably because we're all using "elite" armies with comparable unit sizes (Dwarfs, High Elves and Dark Elves). We usually pick 2-3 chars and a bunch of core troops, then the odd monster or warmachine.
I reckon it might run into trouble when comparing to some horde armies, but then we'll fix as required or simply set a handicap as guideline. Either way, we're not too troubled about that since we're not likely to run into the problem.
It's not meant as a comp system, let alone a system with great longevity :P
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Lord hajjij »

I quite like that system, Daeron. As Icon Hack mentioned in his post, trying to put a model/wound limit is more about making the run time of the game reasonable than it is to comp the armies. For this purpose, I think that we'll give your system a shot.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Calisson »

I like a lot Daron's approach.
In AoS, the number of wounds matters a lot, probably more than number of models or number of warscrolls. That system takes well the number of wounds into account.
It gives a higher cost for elite troops - appropriately.
And it is easier and quicker to count than wounds.

Daeron, what did you do for chariots (COC and SR)?
They are 6 wounds, multiple model warscrolls with 1 model as a minimum.
Your rule would mean that a warscroll of 2 COCs counts as 2pts, while it is unclear if a single COC would be 1 or 2 pts, but I wanted to double-check.
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Daeron »

I'd round it down to a single point really, unless you want to bother with decimals.
If it were a 12 wound dragon, I'd round it up. Homestly, it hasn't come up as an issue simply because the goal isn't a perfect system but a helpful guide to moderate the size of the armies. Use your instincts ;)
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Re: Are you playing pure AoS rules?

Post by Mordrin Spiteblade »

I'm currently in the middle of a 6 turn game vs Skaven that will be completed next week. We took pictures of the table at close of play and will attempt to reconstruct it as we left it next week! A bit strange but because of the need to fully explore and understand the rules and game mechanics we only got 2 turns done. We've gone as close as possible to RaW to ascertain any cheese or madness that needs house ruling. The only thing we've changed is to add a little scenario. We did bring all our models, about 6000pts each in old money but instead of deploying what we like we've done 3 + D3 Units on the first turn with a further 3 +D3 on turn three. The underdog will get an 1 extra unit. This has made it so we have to really consider what we drop to counter each others choices and it seems fairly balanced so far. I must say its been a very fun game and we've both come up with future scenarios and house rule ideas,

Im also considering a campaign using AoS rules for little raiding and ambush scenarios leading to big 8th edition set pieces but havent got much further than brainstorming themes! For example Beach-head, foothold, sortie, siege, pursuit, last stand. However, I think AoS could get boring quickly without a lot of imagination on the part of players as its just not as rich or tactical as 8th or indeed KoW.
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