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Does experince matter? 
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Executioner
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Does it really matter that a person has play 20 years of Warhammer in the Age of Sigmar? I have only playing for the past 8 months, but I have won the last 11 of the 12 matches that I have played. Now I will say that some of these matches have been very close and I barely skated by with the victory, but I do think that is a little odd that I am the one in our group with the least amount of experience but I am winning.
Now I have some thoughts on this and I would like to run them by you all to see what you think.

My theory is that what ever experience you had with WHFB means very little in the Age of Sigmar. That experience is simple a general knowledge of wargaming and doesn't give you the edge in AoS. My main reason for this that Age of Sigmar is a completely new game when compared to 8thE. While the models may carry the same the name they play in a very different way. The new skirmish style is also different making for more chaos on the battlefield, and the random intuitive each turn creates chaos its self as each player is fighting to the chance to strike twice. While there is some complaints about there being little balance in the game and of over powerment of models, I have come to think that all the models are in fact over powered to some degree.
I think back to a game that played against Ogres two weeks ago. I brought to the table 10 Drakespawn Knights, 20 darkshards, Dreadlord on Dragon, 10 bleak swords, 10 executioners, 5 dark riders, Drakespawn Chariot and a 2 sorceress.
He bought, 20 night goblins plus 3 fanatics, 5 ogres, 4 iron guts, 4 lead bluchers, Ogre Chief, Giant, 10 squid hoppers, 3 of some kind of wizard, and Giant squid.
Now this is a pretty scary looking force, and when look at mini of his models have multiple wounds the task to victory becomes daunting. Added in that he has "15 years of Warhammer experience" at the beginning of the battle I was a bit scared that I would lose. But then I remember that I don't have the baggage of Warhammer FB and the Rank and Flank style, that I have only played Age of Sigmar, and that unlike him, I have been a very active member on communities like d.net, youtube, and other forums of information and tactics. So when I won the first turn and choose to go second, it surprised him, and I let his army approach me. When my 20 darkshards unleashed 40 attacks on a giant and killed in turn one cause he placed in a bad position he called it OP. When my Drakespawn Chariot charged his goblins and I moved to the back of his ranks to get the most about models there he was confused until 3 of the models died cause I rolled sixes. He bemoaned me casting Mystic Shield on my Drakespawn creating an near impossible forces and then doublely pissed when I showed him the FAQ where it said I could even though he could have did the same, but never did even after I did. And in turn 2 when my 6 of my surviving executioners wiped out his general letting me win the game, he said that my force was OP and he hoped Dark Elves would get a nerf on app.
Now I won and my Dreadlord was only three wounds away from death, so I don't think that my force is OP. But I do think that I had the advantage over him the whole time, because he just believe that his "15 years or experience" was force multiplier in a game that he only play 4-5 times to my 10 at that point.
I think that in AoS your past experience doesn't really matter. He held back by well that is not how it the that's now how it used to be idea. Every time something happened in the game that didn't go his way or that he didn't understand a rule, cause he "knew" the rules, he would become upset. I saw this a little bit in D&D when the switch was made from 3e to 4e there was a crowd of 3 or 3.5e players that simply didn't want to give into the new rules and fought against them. They never really had fun at Dungeon Wednesdays, cause they couldn't accept a new way playing the charcter.
I feel that AoS has both raised and lowered the bar for wargamming. On one side it a great game that allows newbies (me) to play the game and to slowly build their to armies at a pace they want with out the rush (that's going to change :() of feeling like they need to be the competive field. But I think for people who look for the tatics and see the different strategies it has raised the bar to new level. In my group games have been extremely unpredictable and even in the SCGT the matches that I watched on youtube, you never quite knew what was going to happen.

So that is rant, Tell me what you all think, does experience in WHFB matter in AoS. FOr you new guys what has your experience been playing older hobbyers and for the old guard have you been surprised by a newbie snatching a victory from you?

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Phox Jorkarzul


Sun May 15, 2016 7:22 pm
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Hello Phox, thanks for your great post! Although a little unstructured, it is always a pleasure to read battle reports (especially the juicy extra details) and that of yours was great :D.

Please don't mind the 'old guard', one of the coolest experiences in tabletop gaming is to learn to tactically play and win with your freshly painted miniatures. The fact that you have no WFB baggage is in your advantage, as you better understand the power level and mechanisms in the new game.

I always 'hate' people who call things OP, and it is exactly that whining that took a lot of pleasure out of playing with my Dark Elves in the 8th edition of WFB. Just accept the units power level and think hard about how you can counter it, accept the challenge instead of demanding the other to stop having fun. But maybe that is just me..

So in short, experience matters, but when playing a new game this experience (especially the stupid 8th edition OP whining culture) is only negative baggage and you should keep doing what you are doing and bring more sacrifices to our Dark Elf altars! :twisted:

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Sun May 15, 2016 7:42 pm
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Executioner
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Ha, I guess it was kind of a battlerep, but I was looking for it just an observation about my time playing in the last year.

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Phox Jorkarzul


Mon May 16, 2016 12:54 am
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experience matters. But with every change those who adapt faster will do better, but the people with experience always have an advantage. An in the long run its experience that does well constantly.

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Mon May 16, 2016 8:38 am
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Quote:
the people with experience always have an advantage

It has to be relevant experience, though. Irrelevant experience can be a hindrance, especially if you don't realise that it is irrelevant. If you go into a situation with incorrect expectations, you will be worse off than someone with no expectations. That seems to be what happened in the situation described in the OP.

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Mon May 16, 2016 11:16 am
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if it is irrelevant then it cant be called experience, as it does not apply. So what if I have insane experience in building computers, it wont help me if I'm in the wilderness being attacked by a bear.

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Tue May 17, 2016 10:04 am
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Phox532 wrote:
My theory is that what ever experience you had with WHFB means very little in the Age of Sigmar.


Agreed. And that sums up my view...

Age of Sigmar has so drastically changed how units work that there is little resemblence with WFB. That said, experience is very valuable. Age of Sigmar reset the stage. This presents a unique opportunity. With some dedication to the game, you could bypass many players and stand out in the crowd much easier than you can with an older game. You can have at most... 6-8 months of difference in experience? That's relatively easy to make up for.
In a few years, the distance between new players and more experienced players will be bigger, and so it will be a tougher challenge for new players to reach the top.

BUT... it seems to be a trend among game makers to shake up the balance and game every once in a while to get a soft reset, making it easier for players that have been active recently, to beat the more experienced but less active player.

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Tue May 17, 2016 11:26 am
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I switched from WH to Warmachine on the release of AoS.

It's a good game that's well written but, despite decades playing Warhammer I just kept on losing for months on end. I ended up researching a lot, watching youtube battle reports and just plain playing more (trying to pick out exactly where I went wrong when the game was over). Now my win rate is on the rise and I go into most games knowing that I stand a good chance rather than no chance now that I understand my own army, my opponent's army (WM has many gotchas) and the subtleties of the rules (That one may not apply in AoS :P ).

You've just got to grind it out for a while, even I managed to win a small local WM tournament ^_^.

(And then as I actually get good at the game, Privateer Press update all the core rules and factions. Figures!)

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Tue May 17, 2016 5:37 pm
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I couldn't agree more - experience with WFB (any edition) is of limited value in AOS. It can even be a hindrance, particularly when you're used to always striking first...

As has been said above, AOS is a different game. The lack of an inbuilt balancing mechanism (so far) makes it even harder for a WFB player to come to grips with. A lot of the more-and-less-acceptable tricks from WFB (march-blocking, unit facings, conga-lining, etc) no longer apply, or are potentially counter-productive. You can't six-dice a spell and expect it to turn the game. Shooting units are now far more powerful than they used to be (with the possible exceptions of Tomb Kings and Glade Guard). Artillery is different - generally less damaging (relatively speaking), but much more reliable.

By contrast, there are a lot of wrinkles in the AOS rules which make certain army builds less useful - in particular, the rules for choosing the order of attacking and decisions about who will be going first favour armies with fewer, larger units over a MSU style of play. Piling in is a big deal, as is the positioning of your models on the charge - yesterday, I managed to selectively pick off a unit of Prosecutors with a Vargheist charge while avoiding the heavy-hitting heroes a few inches away, and all perfectly legally as every Vargheist piled in towards the nearest model (i.e. ending up closer to it) as required while being able to manoeuvre out of reach of the much nastier enemy models). Taking the first turn, usually seen as an unwise move as it sets your opponent up to take a double-turn somewhere down the line, is vital against an army that summons (as I learned painfully against a Tzeentch list yesterday). Then, when you factor in the different Battleplans and the different potential ways of winning in AOS (as opposed to VPs and just tabling your opponent), it's clearly a very different kettle of fish to the old game.

Experience in these situations, and with these rules, is extremely important. It's even more important if you'd otherwise default to the actions you might take in a game of WFB.

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Sun May 22, 2016 4:49 am
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My guess and from what ive seen is that the experienced players who were competitive went to different game systems. The players with experience who were not competitive stayed with AoS.

The non competitive players tend to be bad at strategy stuff in general or just dont care that much about it so dont spend time thinking about the strategies. They just have fun throwing dice, making decisions on the fly and seeing what happens. It can ruin the fun when they go against someone who really delves into the strategy aspect because that guy just stomps them.


Im a gamer with years of experience. But my experience includes 40k . AoS and 40k are very similar. Most of the strategies I've seen people talk about with AoS i remember doing in 40k. Which is why AoS is kinda 'meh' to me. Not because its bad, but because i've played it all out back in 40k.

I do have a suggestion for you since you really like the strategy aspect.
You will come up against a few different types of players in your games. If they are competitive like you then keep doing what your doing, bring the best list and best strategies.
But when you play against non competitive players you've already won. And stomping them isnt going to be much fun. So give yourself a handicap. Not only does this improve the chances for your opponent, but it makes you learn how to play at a disadvantage, it gives you a challenge.
The handicap can be a small points disadvantage, about 10-20%. Sometimes the disadvantage can just come from deploying wrong or randomly. Maybe take suboptimal units and see if you can make them effective.

Try it out, lots of fun.
....oh, and dont tell the opponent you are intentionally giving yourself a handicap. Keeping the illusion of a fair fight keeps it fun.


Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:33 pm
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