HE players want rewrite! What do you think?

Krusader · Post by **Krusader** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:29 am

I've noted that some HE players want a rewrite of the HE book. I've even read someone who said that the DE book doesn't need a update. Rubbish.
Some HE players want to play the HEs Chaos-style! IMO they have watched LOTR some times, gotten the idea that Elves can do anything and kill everything and want to apply it to Warhammer! (LOTR is awesome btw)
I myself have the High Elves as my main army, and DE as my second. And I think the HE book is good enough, at least when it comes to Wizards and magic items. And Spearelves with three ranks

The reason I bring this up on this forum is that I want to hear what YOU other DE players say about this?
Whenever DE players compare the army list then they compare it with the HE list and vice versa

Murmandamus · Post by **Murmandamus** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:59 am

Muahahahahahahaha
HE Rewision Muahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Ok so get them troops with str 10 tougness 10 Stubborn Hate
and 10 wounds so the greater dfaemon of ausyrian hahahahaha
on cost of 50 pts hahahahahah.

They want rewision...how silly.As if they don't have the powerfull army
list,best magic,bestst magic items yet!

The almost hevy cavalery as core(silverhelms)

Great defensive spearelves(they have beaten my charging witch elves)

Stupid Banner that gives immune to psych?bleh best banner! not enough?

Vauls unmaking?Ring of Corin?Bleh ah this is of couse not enough!

Book Of Hoeth! Very good the IF in double is good but we want more.

Oh the mighty Swordmasteers aren't powerfull enough?We want KB on 4+

Bleh Oh the great Special Characters and no dead chars among them?Yes
we have no dead and we are killing the others chars but we want to kill them more...

Hahahah yes yes i have idea Eltharion will kill Shadowblade and Malekith and Malus we will be happy....

Great We want two raqnk shooting yes our archers are not deadly enoug.

Damn HE are the best army so far avible and they want rewision?
What a shame on weakling Asur!(there is an old saing: Give them a finger
and they will grab a whole Hand)

Mdk · Post by **Mdk** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:00 am

I think that they do'nt know what they are talking about. The HE book is'nt releast THAT long. let them playtest some more nd then deside ... In my opinion HE are good, better balanced then DE so I say, no.

Eeeeron · Post by **Eeeeron** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:30 am

I don't think that HE need a revision. Only a very small minority of HE players do compared to the much greater percentage of DE players.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:41 am

HEs suffer the same inherent weakness in strength and toughness as we do, part of being Elven but their book is better than ours as long as you play the army in the way it is intended.

I think there are probably things which do need attention but that is for them to decide. They have Ulthuan.org which I would assume have figured out by now if it was really that bad.

Lateo · Post by **Lateo** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:54 am

Soo.......lame.....cant......hold...my..laugh...back......MUAHAHAHAH!

Kia Sidhe · Post by **Kia Sidhe** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:21 pm

OMG, people around here begin to sound like some from GW message board. I understand perfectly well why HEplayers would like a rewrite. In general, elven infantry sucks in this ed. of warhammer.

Shadowspite · Post by **Shadowspite** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:24 pm

The weakness inherent in all elves in WH is not something that redoing their army books is going to solve. It's the To Hit table that needs changing so that WS differences have more effect. Not that that's ever going to happen, though...

Dsaldur · Post by **Dsaldur** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:53 pm

I must agree with Kia Sidhe, what's wrong with you peps? Think about how many peps that doesn't think the same of dark elves as we do and therefor don't think that in any way there should be made a revision of the dark elves.

Now, Elves are elves, we have our strengths and our weakness'. Elves is a bit more tactical than others, but I mean.. silverhelms as core? damn, and their spears and magic? bam... Dark elves doesn't have that much of advantage, only 2 of 3: dark riders- core fast cav m9, repeating crossbows - 2 shots -1 to hit. Still that's only a half, since RXBs aint that good after all.

But Krusader, do you have an idea of what to change? just curios.

Krusader · Post by **Krusader** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:26 pm

Forgot to add that there's a minority of HE players who want a rewrite. I'm NOT among them. The HE army list is good!!

When it comes to Dark Elves who I havent played so much with, I think that the -1 to hit when fireing RXB perhaps could be removed, since the RXB are almost DE exclusive.

As I understand it's GW's intention to keep Elves to S3 & T3 and give them some other advantages.

Prince kurth syenigson · Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:27 pm

i am a high elve player and a little bit of dark elve when i can. Now the dark elves do need the change. The HE only want it because they play a certain way and then complain when there army can't do something another can that they want to do..

The main problem i find with all elfs is getting that wound. No matter if it is high elf or dark elf or wood elf. but this has been fixed in the high elf army with some of our special and rare chooses. The dark elf choices are either strength 3, weak to stupidity with just under 1 in every 4 test being failed, or have a gaint target painted on them saying shoot me in large letters.

high elve archers.when someone can tell me a real reason why i have an archer that can only fire in one rank like all other archers but cost double everyones else in points appart from other elves, but that is natural. with no special rules like armour penalties or fighting in two ranks. A bretioan can get 3 archers to my one, a dark elf can fire twice with a -1 penalty, a wood elf get no long distance penalty and armour pieceing at short range. and here is my archer that has nothing but the same points value. people this is a wine but i think for the same points value i should get a special rule for my archer as well.

This is the only fix i would like for the HE, but then again i live in a warhammer world were i don't need to use these archers. In a perfect world i see guard with longbows not bows and archers with just one special rule. But this is a wish list. It is not need to make the army equal. it is there because these are things that are annoying and that is about it. The dark elves list is seriously under performed. It has the ability to be a very good army list but it needs the fixies or you are relying on luck to win a game. And for some off us that is not a good thing.

Lord vraneth · Post by **Lord vraneth** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:31 pm

WEll I do agree there must be some fixes in the book.. I mean hello the RBT crew is obviously wearing armour and it sais they have none!
But the rest is rubbish.. I mean they want dragon princes to be str6 when they charge!!!!
And their Spearelves MUST have heavy armour.... Yeah as if an ordinary Elf can endure heavy armour!!!
Well they say yes.. Ithalmar... well let me say this they won't spent precious ithalmar on ordianary warriors!!!

Mdk · Post by **Mdk** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:53 pm

Where can I find this information you are talking about?

Drasanil · Post by **Drasanil** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:20 pm

I have a secondariy high elf list and IMHO they need a few tweeks like making archers usefull and the bolt thrower crew, but nothing major like us, I say they can wait in ligne! Plus it would be nice that they gave a bigger role to weapons skill after all it is supposed to counter the weak strenght value of elves(all elves) and it doesn`t, what a rip off

Sureal · Post by **Sureal** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:36 pm

Just get rid of Intrigue of COurt (or whatever it's called), and give HE archers long bows, maybe makw them a but cheaper. Oh and the RBT armour thing (not that it makes a lot of diferce...). List fixed

.

Lateo · Post by **Lateo** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:26 pm

Kia Sidhe Wrote:

OMG, people around here begin to sound like some from GW message board. I understand perfectly well why HEplayers would like a rewrite. In general, elven infantry sucks in this ed. of warhammer

I know, but we are Druchii and we are supposed to laugh at the HE. Either way, I dont even think the DE need a rewrite so why should I think the HE would deserve one?

Mag-el · Post by **Mag-el** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:33 pm

Well iplay HE , and some units that are pretty uesless are Phoenix Guards and Lothern Sea Guards. Archers and maybe the other inf need some attention but most the Bow fireing units need fixing. I am happy with the list but sometimes i want to use Phoenix Gards and Lothern Sea Guards(both cost alot) andwant to make them usefull. DE book MUST have a revision, HE book should have one.
Let´s face it compare Handgunners or other non-bow fireing unit in the game, they are much more cost effecient than Archers, cost shitload and shoots like a strenght3 shot, some say it´s BS4 but Strenght 4 instead of BS 4 is twice as good, bc it affect two dice rolls and BS only one.

/\\//\ · Post by **/\\//\** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:44 pm

Well my most common opponent thinks Phoenix Guard and Archers need to be changed. I agree with him. However, I think the Lothern Seaguard is good but are perhaps 1 point over-costed. High Elves have great magical abilities and get all their items cheaper than other races.

Mag-el · Post by **Mag-el** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:14 pm

Lothern Sea Guard cost 16pts with a 5+ AS, and have a Bow(not long bow), so it is outshot by any Shoot unit and outkicked by any CC unit(bc of the cost), die like flies while under fire and at 16pts each :cry:

, can not have big units(bc of cost) and so can not really benefit of the fight in three ranks rule, and if u do take a big unit it can´t fire anygood, either xtremly clumcy(15 wide or something) or xtremly non-cost efficient(10 wide). drop them atleast by 1 point and i would like to see them at -2 points or Lonngbows and -1 point.
I wonder if you have played LSG if you say that they are good, they might seem that way, but at 16pts(5+ AS) twice the cost of Handgunner. NO ONE plays them anymore in Tournaments, at home for fun i play them, but i want to have a fair chance also. We have great things also, but we have the F******G I@C rule that screw up the White Lions and trust me it ain´t fun when you get a lvl 2 mage as a General, with 2w and 3t he can die fast and your opponent get 100points for it and he don´t do jack for the army(General wise), and top that on facing DE, with the Pure of Heart now you have 2 Chars worth 100pts more each with no benefit.
I can take I@C, but i hate the way they made the Phoenix Guards and LSG, and in some degree Archers and White lions(but those two i can play with and don´t feel like i´m screwed).

Post by **Langmann** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:16 pm

Jeez, people, now why crucify them for wanting to fix their list like we wanted ours fixed.

I think there are several issues that they have that are justified.

Intrigue in court: i think many would trade in their cheaper magic for that rule to die.

Lothern Seaguard suck, they should have the same option as cityguard with the front rank buying bows only.

Spearmen are fine the way they are.

Archers are too expensive.

Silverhelms are awesome.

Dragon Princes are great.

Swordsmasters awesome.

Reavers fine.

Chariots good.

Shadow Warriors good.

Eagles good.

Pheonix Guard: cause fear can be very powerful even on an expensive troop. I don't know whether they are broken or not really. Maybe they should scrap fear and choose something else.

White Lions fine.

RBT needs light armour to be fair.

Lord ark'arn · Post by **Lord ark'arn** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:37 pm

they have better things than use, ill say just one thing

STUPIDITY!!!!!

we are at a major disadvantage, why would they need a revision, they list is fine, thats my 2 cents anyway

Mag-el · Post by **Mag-el** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:56 pm

yes u are, but do u feel that the units i have described are of any use, and to point out HE infantry armies aren´t good at all as to all Elves, so if GW makes Lizardmen more "worse" than DE, DE shoulden´t have a revision. Please see it in perpective

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:12 pm

The High Elves are only slightly better than the Dark Elves, and their book is in need of a rewrite as well. All you people who are getting on their case are hypocrites.

I have suggested to some HE players already that they get together at Ulthuan.org or some other site and do what this site has done.

The Seaguard need fixing as Langmann has mentioned.

Intrigue at Court is awful. A terrible rule that just needs to go.

Pheonix Guard are crap just like the official Black Guard. They need to be changed to Immune to Psychology instead of Fear.

Archers are overpriced.

There list is not as bad as the Dark Elf list, but it is still lacking when compared to the other armies.

GW really needs to reconsider how it represents Elves in this game...

Naram sin · Post by **Naram sin** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:25 pm

In my countrie we say give finger they will got whole hand - HE is a strongest army ni WFB now and they want more??

Drasanil · Post by **Drasanil** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:34 pm

Naram Sin wrote:In my countrie we say give finger they will got whole hand - HE is a strongest army ni WFB now and they want more??

No they aren't they are strong but skaven and chaos are the strongest out there, but they do need a few tweeks like mentionned in posts above!