MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

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Katon
Highborn
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:04 pm

MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Katon »

Ok so many firsts here for me, first time using Battle Chronicler and 1st time writing a battle report, there will be some mistakes but I hope to do more reports and become a bit more proficient.
This was 2400 vs Lizardmen and my Local Gamming Club. We just opted for a standard pitched battle.
I always struggle vs Lizardmen with their tough big blocks and high re-rollable leadership, but its always an interesting game. Below is my list and the Lizardmens.

Dark Elves:

Supreme Sorceress = 270
Lvl 4
Dragonbane Gem
Ironcurse Icon

Master = 187
Pegasus
Pendant of Khaelth
Dragon Helm
Heavy Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Great Weapon

Cauldron of Blood = 225
Army Battle Standard Bearer

20 Dark Elf Warriors = 155
Shield
Champion, Standard, Musician

20 Dark Elf Warriors= 155
Shields
Champion, Standard, Musician

5 Dark Riders = 117
Repeater Cross bows
Musician

5 Dark Riders = 117
Repeater Cross bows
Musician

10 Corsairs = 105
Swap Hand weapon for Handbow
Musician

5 Harpies = 55

5 Harpies = 55

5 Cold One Knights = 143
Musician

5 Cold One Knights = 143
Musician

15 Executioners = 208
Standard, Musician
Banner of Eternal Flame

15 Executioners = 186
Musician

6 Shades = 102
AHW

War Hydra = 175

Lizardmen:

Slann (BSB)(Lore of Light)
Focused Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Cupped Hands of the One Ones
War Banner

Skink Priest lvl2 (Lore of Heavens)
Dispel Scroll

Scar Vet 1
Cold One
Burning Blade of Chotec
Charmed Shield
Dawn Stone

Scar Vet 2
Cold One, Dragon Helm
Amulet of Itzl
Venom of the Fiery Frog

36 Saurus Warriors
Musician, Standard

28 Skinks + 3 Kroxigor
X2 10 Skink Skirmishers
X2 5 Chameleon Skinks
X2 Salamander Packs
20 Temple Guard
FC, Discipline Banner, Iron Cursed Iron

Deployment
Image
The Lizards set up was pretty standard, Slann in the middle and a big unit each side to protect along with small units of flanking Skirmishers to shoot and harass.

I wanted to use the building in the middle to try and divide his army and use my faster troops on the extreme left flank to sweep around the side of his army. I ended up and a sort of refused flank set up.

The Slann had Lore Master of Light so had all spells
Skink Priest ended up with Chain Lighting and Ice Shard

Dark Elves got Enchanting Blades, Glittering Scales, Transmutation of Lead, Final Transmutation.
And the Sorceress joins the Spears 1 unit.
I got pretty much the best spells I could have wanted here, everything had a use and I picked up 2 buffs which could be cast on my tightly compact army.

Lizards won the roll and were off.

Lizards Turn 1
Image

The left skinks run through the ruins (I forgot to show it) along with the rest of the left flank, the right moves more cautiously keeping a tighter formation. The Skinks move towards the Corsairs in the building and the skink priest jumps out of the unit while the Salamander unit moves around the larger building to get into position too.

Magic sees the Slann Cast Sherms Gaze on a IF causing 5 dead DR and a Magical Feedback on himself doing no wounds but taking one of the Skink Priest.
Net of Amynotk is cast on the peg hero.

Everything else is dispelled.

Shooting sees the right Salamander kill 4 Corsairs.

The Right Chameleon and left Salamander both shoot the Remaining DR for 1 wound. The Chameleons try their luck vs a Hydra for no wounds.

Dark Elves Turn 1
Image

Dark Elves open up with some charges on the left. The Hydra Charged the Chameleons who hold, and proceed to get stomped to the ground and the Hydra Over runs past the flank of the Skinks (forgot to change the image again)

The right CoK try a long charge on the other Chameleons who also flee.

DR charge the Left Salamander hoping to tie it in combat for the next combat phase and pull all the lizard lines into confusion.

For movement the centre Elf battle line moves together, the Sorceress and her unit hop into the building for shooting protection and the Knights continue their sweep around the left flank to meet up with the Hydra. Harpies relocate to the centre of the board, behind the Elven Battle line.

The Master passes his test and makes a fly up the board to tempt any lizards fool enough to charge him.

Corsairs leave their building in search of something to practice their bow shots on, and Shades jump into the tower to give them a better vantage point.

Magic sees the winds roll low and with only 3 dice the Sorceress goes for Final Transmutation on the Saurus. 1 Cascade later and 5 Lizards are dead along with 2 Spearmen and a scorch mark on the floor where the Sorceress once stood.

Dropping the +1 attack on the DR from the CoB and forgetting I had shades in the tower we go for combat.

DR do a wound and lose one, the Salamander unit Holds.

Lizards Turn 2
Image
Scar Vet 2 Charges the Rear of the DR.

The Chameleons that fled from the Cok unit rally.

The left Skinks make a run for the forest towards the CoK.

The Temple Guard and Kroxigor shuffle a bit, as neither fancies facing the Peg Master.

Right Skinks and Salamander move towards the Corsairs looking to finish them off.

The skink priest uses Chain lighting on the Right Spearmen, they lose one of their men and it doesn’t bounce. Sherm Gaze and Banishment are both cast on the Shades and both Dispelled.

Speed of light is cast on all units within 12”.

Shooting sees the Right Salamander and Skinks see a few more wounds off the Corsairs but the remaining 4 hold steady.

The left skinks take a few shots on the Executioners to the left of the building, 2 wounds are both saved. Along with the Big Kroxigors units javelins doing nothing to the Peg Masters Elven Armour.

In Combat the DR promptly fail their fear check and are killed to the elf. And the Salamander and Scar Vet reform to face the advancing elven line.

Dark Elves Turn 2
Image
The Elves push right up to the Lizardmen giving them little breathing room.

The Far Left CoK decide to fail Stupidity, while the 2nd unit show how things should be done and recklessly charge the Skinks in the forest not fearing the branches and stumps which could unmounts any of them. Their charge sees them wipe the skinks out and over run, Khaines blessing offering the Knights more attacks ensured no skinks were left alive.

The Hydra moves to the flank of the left Salamander and Chameleon unit and flames 3 Chameleons 3 handlers and puts a wound on the Salamander, the Salamander goes mad with rage at the loss of it’s handlers and gains frenzy and Hatred from then on.

Both Harpies fly from behind elven lines and place themselves to stop Temple Guard from advancing too far.

The right spears help by placing themselves to pull the Kroxigor away from the main battle line.

Seeing the Saurus becoming isolated and a Scar Vet still to be dealt with the Master flies to the deployment zone of the lizards and presents himself for any wanabe hero to test their skill.

Spearmen now without their Sorceress still push forwards, leaving the building they are filled with confidence that the Executioners to their left and right will support them and not give up ground with their Temples Cauldron so close by.

Shades in the Tower make up for their lack of shooting last turn and kill the lose skink priest wondering the field. And the Corsairs use their Handbows and kill a few handlers.

Lizards Turn 3
Image
The right Scar Vet charged the Peg master, along with the Scar Vet and Angry Salamander charging the Central Spear unit.

Kroxigor attempt to charge the Right Spear elves and the Elves hold.

Temple guard Charge the Harpies who flee and them redirect onto another unit of Harpies to flee as well leaving the Temple Guard to stumble forward a little.

Magic sees, Phas Protection on the Kroxigor Dispelled though Speed of Light gets through, along with Light of Battle on the Scar Vet vs Peg Master fight, which causes a Miscast killing the Unit Champion and 5 Temple Guard but the Slann escapes unharmed. With the remaining power he casts Shems gaze killing 1 fleeing Harpie.

The right skinks join in and shoot at the Harpies, killing another. And the Salamander getting a long shot to kill 4 Executioners on the right.

The 2 Chameleons have a shot at the Hydra but scaly skin saves him from any harm.

Combat sees the Spearmen champion challenge the Scar Vet doing no wounds and taking two, the remaining Spears kill the Salamander before it can attack and the Scar Vet holds.

The Master v Scar Vet combat ends in no wounds each and the Master holds.

In then Kroxigor vs Spears fight the Spears lose 7 and only kill 5 and proceed to run away but outpace the Kroxigor.

Dark Elves Turn 3
Image
The Hydra Enraged and being shot at by what it considered as a mere snack charged the Chameleons, killing both on the charge and making a 9” over run into the Saurus.

The Spears are blessed with a 5+ward from the Cauldron

The Executioners seeing the Spears struggle to kill a single lizard charge in and show why they are the most feared killers of all. Even when one of the elves landed a perfect killing blow and some magic saw the blade barely scratch the Veteran the rest of the elves were focused in their resolve and slayed the hero.

The Peg Master wastes no time dispatching his Foe either though takes a wound in the process.

Far left CoK fail another stupidity check, while the other unit hungry for more kills move to the hydras left flank and prepare to flank the Saurus. The left most Executions march through the gap also ready to support the Hydra.

The Warriors and depleted Harpie unit both rally and ready themselves for the next Lizards attack.

Shades still hidden in the tower shoot out and kill the remaining Salamander outright, ending the packs rampage.

Lizards Turn 4
Image
Kroxigor charge the Spears again and the Spearmen hold.

Slanns unit spins around, knowing if he doesn’t support the Saurus they could go.

Slann goes ahead and casts a mass of spells. Speed of light, Phas Protection and Light of Battle, all I manage to stop is Time Warp.

I think here the skinks shoot at the harpies but my notes are unclear.

In the Kroxigor v Spears combat the spears lose to and the Kroxigor lose 6. The spears hold for another turn.

They Hydra continues to hold the line, taking 5 Saurus down and holding the combat for another turn.

Dark Elves Turn 4
Image
Peg Master Charges the Slann hopping to hold the unit out of the following combats.

The 2 Harpie units flee and are gone from the game.

The fastest CoK unit move to join the Battle Line and the other CoK unit continue their flanking advance and prepare for a side charge on the Saurus unit.

Left executioners move to flank the left side of the Hydra ready to charge in with the Knights, Spears also move into position to the Saurus flank ready to disrupt the ranks. Remaining right Executioner unit moves to the side of the building and sets up in such a way that the Temple Guard can’t stop the elven mass charge.

Shooting sees the shades take a few wounds off the skink unit.

In the Hydra v Saurus combat each manage a wound on each other but the Hydra refuses to flee.

The Peg Master Takes a wound and deals 2, breaking from combat but out pacing the Temple Guard. Temple Guard reform to face the Executioners.

The spears lose 4 in the continued combat only taking 2 skinks down and break and are run down.

Lizards Turn 5
Image
Korxigor wheel and move to try and make it back to the fight.

The skinks just wonder around the battle field where they are.

Slanns magic is weak as only Speed of Light is cast on all units within 12”, I saved my dice for Phas Protection but the Slann manages to get it off on a IF, using his Cupped Hands to ignore the affects. Trying Shems Gaze on the Executioners in front of the unit, so I throw all dice to stop it.

In the Hydra fight the beast continues to hold as he takes 5 Saurus down and receives no wounds in return.

Dark Elves Turn 5
Image
Dark Elves go all out on a mass charge.

Knights close in on the left flank of a Saurus, Executioners plough in next to the Hydra and the Spears go into the side to help out. The right Executioners charge the Temple Guard to hold them for as long as possible.

Cauldron moves forward and gives the charging Spears the Ward save and left Knight unit moves in case Kroxigor manage a long charge to direct them away from the main fight.
Shades Jump out of the Building to allow the Kroxigor less targets to charge.

In the Saurus fight the combined charge of Knight Elves and Spears sees 2 Knights killed 2 Executioners and a Spearmen and Hydra both lose a wound. Even with their many buffs the Dark Elves kill 8 Saurus. With the Slann near by the whole unit holds and the elves now find them self in a difficult position.

In the fight with the Temple Guard and the Executioners, the Temple Guard slay 8 Executioners before they get to strike. The remaining Executioner brings down one Lizard for his units troubles. Knowing he must still carry out his duty to hold the line he stubbornly holds within range of the Temples Cauldron.

Lizards Turn 6
Image
The Kroxigor go for a long charge on the Knights and get the required distance, brave knights not willing to flee hold and ready to do their duty.

The skinks have nothing to do this turn so just stay where they are.

The Slann unleashes his magic. Managing to cast Phas Protection, Speed of Light, Light of Battle, and Time Warp. I fail to dispel anything and now the feeling of inevitable defeat sets in.

In the Kroxigor combat the Knights fight valiantly, killing 5 skinks and even their mounts killing a further 2. The skinks strike back all missing their attacks and Kroxigor preform badly only managing 1 wound which bounces off the Knights armour. In a further turn of fate the Kroxigor flee from the combat. Not willing to let them get away Knights run them down and stop at the tower.

In the Saurus combat the buffed Saurus kill 2 Knights 5 Executioners and 3 Spears. The Elves do nothing back. The last Knight pulls away from combat along with the Battered Hydra, the spears Hold in the side along with the Executioners who Stubbornly hold, willing to trade their lives to save their comrades.

The Temple Guard slay the last Executioner in their way with ease. And hold their position.

Dark Elves Turn 6
Image
To try and salvage anything the Peg Master Charges the Temple Guard again. Killing 2 Lizards despite their buffs. And receiving no wounds in return. They pass their Stubborn 10 check and stay.

In the Saurus fight the Executioners lose 6 for no kill and the spear lose 2 of their number adding no kills to the combat either. Ranks of the spears cause them to hold steadfast and the Executioners unwilling to flee with the cauldron so close also stubbornly hold.

Luckily The Hydra and last Knight rally and retain some much needed victory points.

End Game

Tallying up the VP Points at the end Dark Elves lost 1232 v the Lizards 1145. Lizards win by 87 Points. So 10-10 if we were at a Tournament. Not a bad result considering how hard the game was.
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Executioner
Posts: 173
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Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Katon,

Thanks a lot for your report! Please, do not feel discouraged that there is no feedback yet. You are pioneer with this style at the moment and even more so when you fielded Executioners. I am sure that in time and with more reports you are going to get more comments. So don't give up and keep up the good work!

That is quite tough army you faced. As you say, big blocks of Saurus are quite dangerous and you have to do a lot of damage to get points from them. At the same time skink clouds and salamanders provide a lot of shooting options as well as protection, in particular against BS-based shooting. Add to that hard as nails scar veterans who can take on small elven units on their own and you have a very well rounded army to fight against.

I will try to add some comments and questions about the game as I read the report:

Deployment

This is a very important phase of the game for any MSU practitioner. We might have more units and try to out deploy the opponent but at the same time we need to know how. Deployment made me realize that you actually do not have that much shooting in your army and that it is almost purely combat orientated! Nice! Proper theme for aggressive and bloodthirsty Dark Elves :)

I was just wondering why did you deploy shades in the middle instead of the building (house) a little to the left (the one on the left flank of dark riders). You would be safe from the start and you would not risk being charged by the scar veteran alone (the option your opponent didn't use). The tower itself would ensure the enemy army had to divide its formation.

DE Turn 1

Ouch! That was very unlucky to cascade the sorceress with her first spell. If that is any consolation, last tournament I had 4 cascades, 3 times killing my own Loremaster, each time first turn. !eek! So I do know how you felt!

DE Turn 2

It does happen sometimes that even elite units fail their Ld check. Did you consider deploying second unit of knights closer to cauldron and behind the woods? They could move without marching through them (at least it looks like it on the map) and avoid DT tests. Or did you play with Mysterious Terrain and you didn't want to risk the effects?

Also, victorious Knights could have reformed facing towards the Saurus for example, while the map shows them facing to the left. Why did you decide to keep facing that direction?

Lizards Turn 3

TG charged harpies who decided to flee. It looks like they had to flee through their own unit. Since harpies are not known for being particularly brave, do you think it was a little bit too risky? If the second unit failed their panic check then the flank to spears would be open and TG could redirect against them instead.

DE Turn 3

In the map from Lizards T3 it seems that overrun with hydra would take her into the flank of the saurus block. While on the diagram for DE T3 they are facing the front. What happened?

Also, why did you decide to overrun? It looked to me as a good option to move Executioners forward to act as a stubborn anvil and then move the knights to the flank as you did it. In the following turn the enemy would either have to charge the Executioners and expose the flank or wait for a charge of 3 units at once.

DE Turn 4

You were already in a position for a charge with two units. Knights on the flank and Executioners on the right to the front. Why didn't you take that opportunity?

Master Peg could actually simply land in front of the Tg thus ensuring they will not attack. or even use shades for the same role and keep more dangerous and more mobile character active. In fact, you could rear charge saurus with him too, further adding to CR.

DE Turn 5

Similar situation, you used more expensive and hard hitting unit to prevent the enemy from joining the fight instead of shades who would have emerged from the building in front of the Kroxigor. :)

It is of course the benefit of a hindsight but I think I would add +1A to the charging knights rather than 5+ ward to spears. Infantry was fighting to the flank and not many attacks were directed at them. While extra S6 attacks (do cold ones benefit from that? If yes then it is even better!) might further increase the chances for breaking the unit. It also shows that +2 for rear charge and any extra wounds the peg master would add to the combat might have simply destroyed the unit. You did great in setting up charges but I have a feeling you didn't do that with the full might.

Summary

It was a good game and getting a draw after disaster of the first turn is definitely a result I would be happy to take myself! Please, do not consider my comments as criticism. I simply have a benefit of reading the report with a cool mind and with diagrams provided is often easier to spot the options not so clear during the game.

You were actually very close on getting that big unit (btw, how many saurus warriors were left?) but it was not meant to be this time. I do believe the things I mentioned above could have changed the situation in your favor in a more significant way.

Thanks again for the great report!

Cheers!
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Calisson
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Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Calisson »

Thanks Swordie for the analysis, which adds up a lot to the batrep!
And of course, thanks Katon edios for the batrep itself.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
Swordmaster of Hoeth
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Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Cheers!

I just know how much effort preparing one takes and I would hate to see Katon discouraged. He is doing great with his army and I am very curious about his decision making too! I just hope he will find time to answer my questions :)
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Katon
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Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Katon »

Hi, sorry its taken awhile I had another report to write up.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: Deployment

This is a very important phase of the game for any MSU practitioner. We might have more units and try to out deploy the opponent but at the same time we need to know how. Deployment made me realize that you actually do not have that much shooting in your army and that it is almost purely combat orientated! Nice! Proper theme for aggressive and bloodthirsty Dark Elves

I was just wondering why did you deploy shades in the middle instead of the building (house) a little to the left (the one on the left flank of dark riders). You would be safe from the start and you would not risk being charged by the scar veteran alone (the option your opponent didn't use). The tower itself would ensure the enemy army had to divide its formation.


I wanted the Shades in the middle to stop the Temple Guard jumping in the building. Ive had experiences with Phoenix Guard with a High mage sat in a building and they had free reign. A unit that’s difficult to break is even harder when in a building. As we play no comp and the rule book doesn’t put a limit of models in a building you could happily camp 50+ models in a building if you wanted.
With the Shades there I could jump out anywhere due to the nature of the tower . added to the fact they are a fragile unit and the -2 to shooting vs them would add some durability along with only D6 from any templates.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:DE Turn 1

Ouch! That was very unlucky to cascade the sorceress with her first spell. If that is any consolation, last tournament I had 4 cascades, 3 times killing my own Loremaster, each time first turn. So I do know how you felt!

Yes is was a unlucky turn 1, ive read all 100 of your reports and am very familiar with archie and his mishaps.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:DE Turn 2

It does happen sometimes that even elite units fail their Ld check. Did you consider deploying second unit of knights closer to cauldron and behind the woods? They could move without marching through them (at least it looks like it on the map) and avoid DT tests. Or did you play with Mysterious Terrain and you didn't want to risk the effects?

Also, victorious Knights could have reformed facing towards the Saurus for example, while the map shows them facing to the left. Why did you decide to keep facing that direction?


I did consider a tighter Knight formation though I wanted to spread them out so I could swoop around the flank with speed and armour. Failing the Ld 9 so often was unfortunate. Sadly because the Caldron is so slow I have to place it where I can get the most out of it and didn’t want a overly cramped deployment zone as it’s already fairly snug. All forest and terrain are Dangerous and I didn’t want to lose casualties early on by marching or charging through forests.

The reason they are still faced left is mostly due to me not placing them correctly in BC, but also they made a overrun but not a very long one. I maybe forgot to show this. I have made a note I need a camera. I use a phone to take on going game photos, they come out grainy and often blurred.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Lizards Turn 3

TG charged harpies who decided to flee. It looks like they had to flee through their own unit. Since harpies are not known for being particularly brave, do you think it was a little bit too risky? If the second unit failed their panic check then the flank to spears would be open and TG could redirect against them instead.

In the TG charge the Harpies were close enough that even if they didn’t run through each other the other unit would have panicked for being within 6”. It was a risk I decided to take. Ld 6 is passable at about 50%?? I risked it and the reward came out in my favour. I enjoy the risk and reward aspect of the game. If I wanted to play safe id run a much more durable play style and army. I learnt to play and lost a lot in 6th. I still carry the mentality play for fun. Risks are fun to me.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:DE Turn 3

In the map from Lizards T3 it seems that overrun with hydra would take her into the flank of the saurus block. While on the diagram for DE T3 they are facing the front. What happened?

Also, why did you decide to overrun? It looked to me as a good option to move Executioners forward to act as a stubborn anvil and then move the knights to the flank as you did it. In the following turn the enemy would either have to charge the Executioners and expose the flank or wait for a charge of 3 units at once.


The turn 3 over run is again a misplacement on my part with BC, the Lizards had spun the block in their turn, I forgot to show it and haven’t found a undo or easy way to go back and correct mistakes yet. It seems to mess up the subsequent turns if I change things. A bit more time and patients checking is needed on my part. Again if I can get decent in game picture they will help with clarity.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: DE Turn 4

You were already in a position for a charge with two units. Knights on the flank and Executioners on the right to the front. Why didn't you take that opportunity?

Master Peg could actually simply land in front of the Tg thus ensuring they will not attack. or even use shades for the same role and keep more dangerous and more mobile character active. In fact, you could rear charge saurus with him too, further adding to CR


With my turn 4 I did consider the charge. I weighed up the pros and cons and favoured not to. The combination of Speed of light, Phas Protection and Light of Battle in play worried me slightly and I decided that in the next magic phase it might not be so well buffed.
Its hard to tell if I made the right decision here or not. I think I should have gone with the charge but with my army I do see Hatred as a big boon so I don’t like prolonged combat. I like to go for the one off charge and destroy my opponent. It worked in the early testing of my army at the tournament. Sadly in this game it didn’t.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:DE Turn 5

Similar situation, you used more expensive and hard hitting unit to prevent the enemy from joining the fight instead of shades who would have emerged from the building in front of the Kroxigor.

It is of course the benefit of a hindsight but I think I would add +1A to the charging knights rather than 5+ ward to spears. Infantry was fighting to the flank and not many attacks were directed at them. While extra S6 attacks (do cold ones benefit from that? If yes then it is even better!) might further increase the chances for breaking the unit. It also shows that +2 for rear charge and any extra wounds the peg master would add to the combat might have simply destroyed the unit. You did great in setting up charges but I have a feeling you didn't do that with the full might.


In turn 5 I used the Executioners over the Shades just because I wanted to try and get some kills, and maybe get lucky. I also looked at the amount of attacks and took a risk that if just 1 Executioner is left it ties the unit up for 2 combats but also stops their magic missiles for a turn. Shutting down a selection of his spells just by being in combat was a bonus to me here as I hoped I would have more free dice to stop the buffs as I know magic missiles would be out of the game.
The shades would have simply died and the unit reformed and had the option of more magic spells.

In the Lizards turn 4 they break my peg master from combat. On my turn 5 he rallies. I don’t state this in my description, I must have missed it on my notes. This is the reason he doesn’t charge in.
The Knights do benefit from the +1 attack from the Cauldron but not the mounts.
I gave the 5+ ward to the Spears in a hope that I would retain enough to keep steadfast and deny ranks. Also if it all went wrong I would have them stubborn and the Executioners also Stubborn to stop the Lizards chasing my army down.

The combat generated enough for the Saurus to require a Ld4 check. But re-rollable cold blooded they passed on the re-roll and remained.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:It was a good game and getting a draw after disaster of the first turn is definitely a result I would be happy to take myself! Please, do not consider my comments as criticism. I simply have a benefit of reading the report with a cool mind and with diagrams provided is often easier to spot the options not so clear during the game.


I take anything players can offer me as positive, someone is welcome to tell me my list design is terrible. I see weaknesses in it that are to be addressed. The Master on Peg is going. Not due to a lack of performance but due to the Pendant being so strong. I feel it needs to go. I don’t want it to become a crutch. Even the Hydra and Cauldron are up for consideration.

12 Saurus remained at the end. Maybe I should have pressured the smaller Temple Guard unit. Though I think that would have been playing into my opponents hands too much. With their book re-write out I’ll no doubt get another game in as they will be flavour of the month.
Calisson wrote:Thanks Swordie for the analysis, which adds up a lot to the batrep!
And of course, thanks Katon edios for the batrep itself

Cheers for posting. Any posts are welcome as I feel people avoid Battle Reports with no comments as its hard to criticise is someone won and perhaps harder if they lost. But ive got thick skin, bring it.

Sorry it took so long to comment but game 2 is up now 2600 Dark Elves MSU vs Beastmen (Now with Manticore): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72602

Enjoy.
Swordmaster of Hoeth
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Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Katon!

Thanks for the replies!

Katon edios wrote:Hi, sorry its taken awhile I had another report to write up.


No worries! As long as you are willing to continue the discussion all is fine!

Katon edios wrote:I wanted the Shades in the middle to stop the Temple Guard jumping in the building. Ive had experiences with Phoenix Guard with a High mage sat in a building and they had free reign. A unit that’s difficult to break is even harder when in a building. As we play no comp and the rule book doesn’t put a limit of models in a building you could happily camp 50+ models in a building if you wanted.
With the Shades there I could jump out anywhere due to the nature of the tower . added to the fact they are a fragile unit and the -2 to shooting vs them would add some durability along with only D6 from any templates.

All good and valid points. However, your opponent could have simply assaulted the building. With each saurus having 2A shades have little chance to survive such attack. So your opponent could achieve 2 goals with a single action. He didn't do that for some reason.

Katon edios wrote:Yes is was a unlucky turn 1, ive read all 100 of your reports and am very familiar with archie and his mishaps.
Cheers! I didn't know that Archie's Adventures are also known in the Land of Chill. Probably as a good comedy :D

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Katon edios wrote:I did consider a tighter Knight formation though I wanted to spread them out so I could swoop around the flank with speed and armour. Failing the Ld 9 so often was unfortunate. Sadly because the Caldron is so slow I have to place it where I can get the most out of it and didn’t want a overly cramped deployment zone as it’s already fairly snug. All forest and terrain are Dangerous and I didn’t want to lose casualties early on by marching or charging through forests.
Understandable, just an option to consider. And indeed, sometimes one needs some more luck.

Katon edios wrote:The reason they are still faced left is mostly due to me not placing them correctly in BC, but also they made a overrun but not a very long one. I maybe forgot to show this. I have made a note I need a camera. I use a phone to take on going game photos, they come out grainy and often blurred.
Ah yes, blurry pictures syndrome, I need to to keep my hands steady with the camera too!


Katon edios wrote:In the TG charge the Harpies were close enough that even if they didn’t run through each other the other unit would have panicked for being within 6”. It was a risk I decided to take. Ld 6 is passable at about 50%?? I risked it and the reward came out in my favour. I enjoy the risk and reward aspect of the game. If I wanted to play safe id run a much more durable play style and army. I learnt to play and lost a lot in 6th. I still carry the mentality play for fun. Risks are fun to me.
Fair enough! Although you didn't risk with the forest and COK :P

Katon edios wrote:The turn 3 over run is again a misplacement on my part with BC, the Lizards had spun the block in their turn, I forgot to show it and haven’t found a undo or easy way to go back and correct mistakes yet. It seems to mess up the subsequent turns if I change things. A bit more time and patients checking is needed on my part. Again if I can get decent in game picture they will help with clarity.
Ah yes, it is indeed quite annoying with BC when you want to go back with some changes and you cannot. Maybe we should send some feedback to the guys who provided that and they might include that?

Katon edios wrote:With my turn 4 I did consider the charge. I weighed up the pros and cons and favoured not to. The combination of Speed of light, Phas Protection and Light of Battle in play worried me slightly and I decided that in the next magic phase it might not be so well buffed.
Its hard to tell if I made the right decision here or not. I think I should have gone with the charge but with my army I do see Hatred as a big boon so I don’t like prolonged combat. I like to go for the one off charge and destroy my opponent. It worked in the early testing of my army at the tournament. Sadly in this game it didn’t.
Indeed, when things work nicely one does not question the decision. I understand the concern with spells in play. But then, maybe it was even more of a reason to charge all in as it maximizes the chances in given circumstances with all units having re-rolls at the same time? Just some food for thought.

Katon edios wrote:In turn 5 I used the Executioners over the Shades just because I wanted to try and get some kills, and maybe get lucky. I also looked at the amount of attacks and took a risk that if just 1 Executioner is left it ties the unit up for 2 combats but also stops their magic missiles for a turn. Shutting down a selection of his spells just by being in combat was a bonus to me here as I hoped I would have more free dice to stop the buffs as I know magic missiles would be out of the game.
The shades would have simply died and the unit reformed and had the option of more magic spells.
I was not clear enough. I meant why did you use COK to block Kroxigors rather than Shades?

Katon edios wrote:In the Lizards turn 4 they break my peg master from combat. On my turn 5 he rallies. I don’t state this in my description, I must have missed it on my notes. This is the reason he doesn’t charge in.
The Knights do benefit from the +1 attack from the Cauldron but not the mounts.
I gave the 5+ ward to the Spears in a hope that I would retain enough to keep steadfast and deny ranks. Also if it all went wrong I would have them stubborn and the Executioners also Stubborn to stop the Lizards chasing my army down.

The combat generated enough for the Saurus to require a Ld4 check. But re-rollable cold blooded they passed on the re-roll and remained.
Good points. Thanks! Now I understand better what you wanted to achieve. Sometimes there are many options and one has to choose. Knowing how that combat went (ld4 even with coldblooded and a re-roll is not great so unlucky on your part that it was not enough) would you still do the same with cauldron buffs? You can break steadfast either by keeping your own ranks or destroying enough of the enemies to deny them theirs. Which, do you think, was more likely here?

Katon edios wrote:I take anything players can offer me as positive, someone is welcome to tell me my list design is terrible. I see weaknesses in it that are to be addressed. The Master on Peg is going. Not due to a lack of performance but due to the Pendant being so strong. I feel it needs to go. I don’t want it to become a crutch. Even the Hydra and Cauldron are up for consideration.
Sounds very intriguing! Looking forward to see the changes.

Katon edios wrote:12 Saurus remained at the end. Maybe I should have pressured the smaller Temple Guard unit. Though I think that would have been playing into my opponents hands too much. With their book re-write out I’ll no doubt get another game in as they will be flavour of the month.
Battle report featuring a new book is always a good thing! Bring it on!

Cheers!
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Katon
Highborn
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Katon »

I think maybe you are right that I should have applied some pressure in turn 4, even if it wouldn’t have been the full might the 2nd round of charges could have supplemented the combat res further along with another top up of freshly hate filled troops. With the Buffs lesser on turn 4 I could maybe of inflicted more casualties and pushed for more of a grind.

Battle Chronicler does get easier to use, on my 3rd report I feel I have it more accurate and neater. The option to undo a mistake would still be useful. I should be punished for mistakes in game, not in my Battle Reports too.

I’ll fire a quick email off to the creators. It’s probably much like a battle report. Even with 1000 views 1 constructive comment is better received.

I haven’t had time to look if you have done any more reports since ConVic? I don’t feel I could write a decent battle report from a tournament. The time limits would limit me too much and I feel id need to offer my opponent my full attention not half while I take notes.
Do you bring a Squire to take your notes for you?
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Executioner
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:49 am

Re: MSU Dark Elves vs Lizardmen 2400

Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Katon,

No, I haven't played any games since ConVic. Usually, after quite intense weekend and then using my spare time to write reports I don't quite have a need to play. I also wanted to have time to think about my list and things I learned so that it can evolve further. I am in a good position now as the list did work ok for me but at the same time I decided to change some things to give me an opportunity to play with units I haven't used for a long time.

As to tournaments I simply take photos. I only make note on spells generated. Since my reports are more story-like I do not need to give information about every single dice roll. It seems it has worked reasonably well so far and I am always happy to answer more detailed questions. Luckily for me I remember enough and photos help enormously to refresh my memory. Taking them is also an activity that does not have an impact on the game and a "Photo-Shooting Phase" is now incorporated to my games. :)

Cheers!
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