Lost colony in 9th age - 2500 vs. VC
Page 6 of 10

Author:  Marchosias [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

I have just noticed an interesting option that I would like to discuss here.

This is the beginning of my turn 4 (I got first):


The slann is still in the centre. My dreadlord is the black-blue-white winged person next to the forest. There was the option for him to charge against the slann's bodyguards. Maybe I should have taken the risk:

In my turn, the dreadlord would get challenged by the unit champion. In the subsequent ones, my opponent would have tried to bring more champions into the combat or, better, a scar-veteran able to kill the dreadlord outright. It would have taken some time, though:

- there is one unit of skinks with veteran to the west of the forest. However, to the south of them, I had my executioners prepared. A charge ensures this scar-veteran is not meetimg my dreadlord anytime soon: either he gets killed, or pinned down, or breaks my executioners and has to pursue due to the predatory fighter rule.
- there is a unit of skinks on the hill but they are in an easy charge distance of another unit of executioners.
- and to each side of the slann, we have another cold one hero with a skink bodyguard unit. They would have surely raced to help their general but they would have not managed this before the botton of turn five as they would not see the dreadlord outright.

Therefore, my lord would have two combat phases to kill the slann. 8 S4 attacks with rerolls, another four without from the pegasus. The toad has T4 and four wounds. Seems doable to me, provided apotheosis would have not got through.

The dreadlord would have probably died, if only to combat resolution, but he is worth 400 points while the slann gives up 700.

What do you think?

Author:  Marchosias [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

@ Thraundil: Thank you for your reply!

Your suggestion for a "unit" of pegasus riders is probably good. However, while they can easily destroy one scar-veteran in a skink unit I am not sure they can kill all three of them simultaneously. And my opponent would surely try to use his heroes as a counter to mine. If he does this, though, I can probably charge something else thanks to my mobility so it is definitely worth trying.

He is more dangerous in magic than that. He has lore of heavens on the skink priest, arcane unforging on slann and most importantly, due to the lore attribute he can exchange his high magic spells for spells from any other lore. So in his first turn, he cast hand of glory on some insignificant skinks and swapped it for gehenna's golden hounds. Suddenly a good reason to fear. He rolls for the spells as if generating them before the battle but searing doom would have not been much better.

Author:  Thraundil [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

Yeah good points... Slanns are magic beasts. Another great reason why I love playing with death magic in my lists... Kill them! Golden hounds is annoying since it targets, but searing doom can be circumvented by attaching the masters into fast cav units during the "approach". In particular, warlock units! Searing doom is balls vs warlocks with their 6+ armor save :P
Just remember to put them out of harms way as you approach. Either block his charges, or remember your march move of 20 inches... My play vs a lizzie would involve tossing fast cav units with pegasus attached just out of a max charge range of his scar vets (I believe cold ones are M7 yeah? So 19"), and then in his turn, he cant charge. If he moves forward, your fly march takes your heroes behind him = free havoc. If he doesnt move forward, your fly march takes you to his flanks = free havoc. If he moves backwards, he gives up board control, and you just pack him up with charge blockers and position your fliers for the good money charge on the slanns unit. Everything stands and falls with getting the heroes into the Slann. Make such a charge, win the game. Its alot harder than it sounds of course, but I've beaten a lizardman a couple of practise games now where I've rammed double pegasus heroes into skink units with a scar vet in it, removed steadfast with the lord while the BSB dueled his scar vet, and ran him down, then in subsequent turns surround and combocharge the Slann. You'd be surprised how fast 3-4 pegasi grinds out 20 temple guard.

As for your charge possibility: YES! In that position, take the charge. You'll win the first round mauling the unit champion - sure he is steadfast LD9 and coldblooded, but stuff like that breaks all the time. Where is your other peg heroes? One behind the hill, I can see - he should swing around for a flank. I know you said he lost his ward save to an arcane unforging, but still. Fly him to the bunker flank = no front arc, no spells. Then you slam him into the flank of the unit... But like I said earlier too - if the two can charge in together, their lethality becomes ten times greater! Imagine tossing the lord into base contact with the toad, and the BSB just goes on the unit. Your BSB is there to take the challenge, giving the lord the option of throwing d3 wound attacks on the Slann. But also - given 3 full rounds of combat, between your lord and BSB they can kill so many skinks he is no longer steadfast...

I know that he can counter your hero 'block' by also massing up his own heroes, but yo. You can fly. Nothing in the world can position for charges more easily than pegasus heroes. And if he puts all his scar vets into a single unit, say hello to all-day redirection from your fast cav. Or potentially an overrun setup for an executioner flank charge...

But yeah definitely take the charge in the situation. With a little luck you'll kill the Slann. 8 attacks at 3+ with rerolls is 5,3+ is an astonishing 7 hits, wounding on 4's with reroll of 1's. Factoring in mount attacks, you're actually looking at a kill since he doesnt have a ward save. So yeah. Take the charge. Never underestimate how killy our lords and masters are...

Author:  Rowena [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

Thanks for the write-up. :)

Also, in the photos you can see the sad state of the army - borrowed bolt throwers (I think I prefer the paper ones, at least those are blue), many unpainted models... :( I hope I get some time to paint more stuff soon, because I hate not being able to field a full-paint army.

Author:  Marchosias [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

@ Rowena: On the other hand, if our army would be fully painted it would look so awesome that all our opponents (OK, except a few guys who had probably sold their souls to devil for better painging skills) would feel ashamed. :D Keep calm and do not panic. :)

@ Thraundil: Bad news: After looking up the rules properly, I have to reevaluate. A slann actually has five wounds and more imporantly, a built-in 4++ ward save. Expecting to kill him with 12 attacks would be quite bold.
Also, he carries the standard of discipline, so even if his unit loses combat (which would need an overkill of 4 as on the opposing side, there are three ranks, banner and a musician - easily achievable with rerolls and multiplying from cloak of twilight but not absolutely certain), he only runs if he rolls 5,6,6 twice in a row.

One more thing: the rules for ItP say that if the majority of models has this rule, they cannot elect to flee. One scar-veteran in a unit of skinks can. As can for example a unit composed of the last witch elf joined by a dreadlord. :D

Author:  Thraundil [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

Yeah it did seem abit soft for a Slann. My tactic would hence be to move the pegasus guys in conjunction at all times. Get the lord and one other guy in. With the d3 wounds rule you still stand a good shot at dropping the Slann... You're looking at essentially 3 wounds with d3 going through on him, so odds are he will take 2-3 wounds on the charge. Then you can still chip the rest down with a bit of good rolling.

Or get the lord and BOTH other guys in. Ignore the Slann. Wipe the rank and file skinks and run him down once steadfast is gone.

AS for ItP - blimey I do believe you are right. Still. If you can get a couple of scar vets to flee, you're still looking at a lot of movement freedom for your troops!

Author:  Marchosias [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

Team Tourney 4/5: Lost Colony vs. High elves

Despite the horrendous defeat from last round we will still in the game. This time we drew a team that was solid but not unbeatable and were hoping for a good result.
As usual, I got sacrificed. :D I was the first one offered to our opponents who countered with an infantry high elf list (big block of WL, smaller block of PG, anointed, high magic) and an aggressive flavour of dwarfs with no warmachines but vanguarding blocks of hammerers. For me, personally, the dwarfs would have probably been a better matchup as I would have killed something and lost nothing but others were so sure they could 20:0 them (while it is questionable I would have been able to grind down two stubborn blocks) that they convinced me to accept the high elves as opponents.
I did not think this matchup was terrible for me, anyway (and I did not change my mind still). Sure, the lionstar is powerful and it is questionable if I can do something about it. It would need an extremely careful approach in any case. However, the phoenix guard block was not that numerous and cannot be supported by magic that easily and the rest of the army is not that strong (bolt throwers can hurt but one can do something about them) so I should have been able to get a draw which was everything that was asked from me.

Lost Colony:

Dreadlord on dark pegasus: general, lance, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, dawnstone, cloak of twilight: 289
Supreme sorceress: lvl 4 heavens, ring of hotek, dispel scroll: 295

Master on dark peagasus: heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, sword of might, potion of strength, dragonbane gem: 177
Master on dark pegasus: BSB, great weapon, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, talisman of preservation, charmed shield: 209

2x 5 dark riders, musician, champion, shields, crossbows: 2x 120
20 spearmen, FCG: 210
10 witch elves, FCG, banner of eternal flame: 150

4x reaper bolt thrower: 4x 70
2x 10 har ganeth executioners, musician: 2x 130
5 harpies: 75
5 shades, additional hand weapons: 90
5 doomfire warlocks: 125

High Elves:

Anointed of Asuryan: General, Dawn Stone, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, 280
Archmage: Lvl 4, High, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation, 320
Noble: BSB, Great Weapon, Armour of Silvered Steel, Luckstone 149
3x 5 Ellyrian Reavers: Bow, 95
5 Silver Helms: Shield, 115
9 Silver Helms: Shield, 207
26 White Lions of Chrpce:FCG, Banner of the World Dragon, 418
18 Phoenix Gard: FCG, Razor Standard, 345
4x 1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 70



My two main goals were, first, clear his chaff and bolt throwers as quickly as possible; second, avoid his deathstar. We both knew that the only big points he could have got in close combat was the unit with supreme sorceress; other units are so fast that he would have to rely on shooting and magic. Therefore, his infantry blocks went in the middle to make the distance to my bunker as short as possible; his fast units covered the flanks. I decided to use the house to hopefully split the two blocks or use it as cover for an escape. Maybe I should have taken this even further and placed the spearmen bunker right behind the house (then, should he not split the blocks, I would have easily escaped, and if he did the phoenix guard was not that numerous so I should have been able to defeat it somehow). In the game, however, I placed the spearmen to the far west; this way I maximized the distance and got the option to escape the lionstar along the west table edge provided I would have managed to defeat the big silver helms.
My infantry spread behind the forest, prepared to redirect or combo charge should an opening present itself; the fast elements were asked to race to bolt throwers and kill off some high elf cavalry.
I grabbed the first turn and got to work.

Lost Colony, Turn 1


As you can see from my vanguards and first turn moves, I was using the impassable terrain in the middle as a stronghold for my agile units where they were more or less safe from shooting and magic. Warlocks, hidden from most harm, were prepared to throw some doombolts and scare the high elves from entering into their charge range, shades get in range to shoot at something while staying safe.
I was quite bold with my dark riders: I placed them in an easy charge range of some reavers. My reasoning was that I should have killed one with shooting and after the charge, we had the same armour save after modifiers, he had S4 but I had rerolls to hit so I deemed the risk acceptable. I should have probably sent the riders out of the enemies charge arc, though: their goal was to force the enemy to protect his bolt throwers somehow which would have been achieved this way as well.
On the western flank, I mostly stayed put as I knew my opponent would come to me. I just sent a unit of dark riders slightly forwards (into the forest to provide them with soft cover at least) and joined them by PoS master. If my opponent failed to do something about them they could have charged a bolt thrower or the bigger silver helm unit.
In shooting and magic, I was able to panic two units of reavers as we forgot to apply Valour of Ages. The third one, the one that was able to charge my daring dark riders, got away without harm, though. I probably managed to kill a bolt thrower, too, possibly with shades and the eastern bolt thrower though I am far from being sure.

High Elves, Turn 1


The reavers on the east charged my bold dark riders.
Everything marched closer to my spearmen bunker, as expected. Silver helms protected the backfield.
In magic, my western dark riders got decimated by a soul quench (might have been boosted). The lone pegasus hero got then killed by a lucky single shot. I was able to stop arcane unforging on my general at least (if I remember correctly).
The reavers had probably eaten some drugs as they decimated my dark riders for only one casualty of their own.

Lost Colony, Turn 2


First, I sent my warlocks to retaliate on the victorious reavers.
My harpies were march blocked by the silver helm unit behind the hill and so I left them there, not useful but safe from fire at least.
I then had to do something about the encirclement on the west. To this end, I marched my spearmen with sorceress and BSB (sorceress in the second rank) forwards at full speed, inviting an easy charge from the bigger silver helms. In preparation for this fight, I cast bubbled harmonic convergence on the spearmen and both bolt throwers and curse of the midnight wind on the silver helms.
In addition, I brought my executioners slightly nearer to allow some redirect should it have been necessary.
I was quite unsure what to target with my shooting. Reducing the number of silver helms would have been a good thing; however, between cover and armour, I was not sure it would have made a big difference. Therefore I decided to target the opposing bolt throwers and in a stroke of luck was able to destroy both war machines on the hill.
Combat got worse than expected, though: I destroyed the reavers but after the pursuit, only two warlocks were left.

High Elves, Turn 2


Bigger silver helms charged my spearmen bunker. The infantry blocks advanced and were now dangerously near. Smaller silver helms hid behind a hill and that was pretty much all my opponent was left with.
In magic, he succeeded with casting arcane unforging on my general, destroying the dawnstone but not wounding him at least. In addition, fighting silver helms were supported with hand of glory and fear from apotheosis. I stopped a big soul quench at executioners at least (Maybe I should have risked the panic or maybe I should have moved my general elsewhere? To the spearmen unit perhaps as then, the fight would have been quite one-sided in my favour?)
There was almost no shooting left.
Combat did not go according to plan, however: I think seven spearmen died for minimal losses among the silver helms. This was quite a surprise for me; I rolled this fight again at home and there, the silver helms broke from the fight right in the turn they charged but this is not a proof of course. I am lazy to mathammer this but you are welcome to do it for me:
Silver helms had WS6, I passed my fear test;
I was rerolling 1s to hit, wound and armour saves; besides, I had hatred;
They were rerolling 6s to hit, wound and armour saves.
It is possible we forgot to do all those rerolls, I am far from being sure.

Lost Colony, Turn 3


My original plan was to redirect the white lions with the western executioners. This would have bought more time to defeat the helms and I would have escaped with spearmen, BSB and sorceress. However, their movement did not suffice. Had I moved them closer the previous turn… Alternatively, I did not consider conga-lining them but I am not sure it would have helped. Probably not.
Therefore, I moved them as far as I could. The lions could have charged them and then overran into the spearmen but there was a chance they would roll low for the pursuit. (I am not sure, though, if the chance was higher than the chance they would not complete the charge in the first place).
My dreadlord flew behind the lions, ready to charge into their backs and, more importantly, escaping from more arcane unforgings. Witches and eastern executioners repositioned slightly to catch the phoenix guard at least but without much success.
I also sent the remaining warlocks against the last bolt thrower. They destroyed it and overran off the board but one of them got killed.
From the big unit, only four helms were remaining in the end of the turn so they were surely taking an unfavourable break test but they stuck.

High Elves, Turn 3


The white lions charged, destroyed executioners for no losses worth mentioning and successfully overran into the spearmen. This was basically game over.

I have no documentation of the subsequent turns but I know I made several other stupid mistakes. I tried to get the phoenix guard at least and reduced their size to 10 or something with shooting. I was doing badly at foreseeing overruns and countering them, and therefore the witches got flanked by the white lions and destroyed. I was urged by the captain to try a desperate charge against the remnants of the phoenix guard, execs to the front, general to the back – but it did not work. The general was not even able to kill the champion in a challenge. Warlocks got caught by the remaining silver helm unit after their return to the board.
In the end, it was a clear 0:20 loss.

After-battle thoughts:

The game got decided with me being unable to break through with the spearmen bunker. There are two reasons this happened: they did not defeat the silver helms and I was unable to redirect the lionstar. As I have already mentioned, I am not sure how much chance they actually had at breaking the helms (I think a decent one but I might be mistaken) so let us talk about the redirection.
I have already mentioned the execs: Turn 2, they should have marched the maximum distance available. This would have allowed me the redirection I sought.
I should have taken care of the harpies as well, though. They were actually march-blocked twice – I could have reformed the executioners in a line and placed the general on the eastern edge, for example, this should have brought him in range of the flying girls. The unit was not safe from magic anyway and it would have been able to wear down some bolt thrower fire. Harpies should always be as near to the unit they are going to redirect as possible. Alternatively, they could have flew to the west turn 2 as bolt thrower fire is not that devastating for them (well, at least one should survive and the general would have been near).
I feel I was quite lucky clearing the chaff, forgotten Valour of Ages or not. Destroying two bolt throwers with shooting in one turn was good by itself, even with rerolling 1s, and my initial fire killing eight reavers and one bolt thrower was not bad either.
I should have not held the shades that far back. The only unit I could have been concerned about was the bolt thrower and they could have not escaped its fire anyway while keeping in range themselves; reavers and silver helms were far away. Alternatively, scouting them to the west might have been advisable for an early redirection but I am hardly sure about this. Going west, they could have died for nothing as well. They should have probably started where they did but then moved to the west as quickly as possible.
What I am still not sure is whether my army can engage the lionstar. (Unsupported phoenix guard is beatable as proved in the battle: some shooting plus a pegmaster plus witches should do the trick). My opponent was often one-dicing spells which is somewhat risky but not that risky with Book of Hoeth; therefore, together with the help from the anointed, the lions mostly had something like a 4++ ward save. 3++ in the case of characters. Once in combat, however, the number of spells he has available shrinks (in this game he would have been down to apotheosis and hand of glory); suddenly, I can use all dice on one of them, dispel scroll on the other and fight a mere 6++ ward. However, I have to survive in combat long enough before this happens.
Therefore, my ideal solution would have been: charge with two pegmasters, each in one flank. One of them might issue a challenge to get a bit safer. They kill nothing and hopefully lose no wounds themselves (only four attacks go to the flanks); with some luck, they should stick and prevent the enemy from reforming. In the subsequent round, I could charge with everything and overwhelm the unit.
However, I feel this is still a bit too risky considering how many points I would need to throw the lions way.

On other tables, our results were mixed. Our Warrior of Chaos crushed the dwarfs 20:0 as expected. Our orc, however, did a stupid mistake (I am quoting him here!) and lost both his unit of savage big uns and trolls as a consequence (I think he lost combat, rolled first on his unit with characters, failed his stubborn with reroll and the trolls then ran as well with their low leadership). Our Ogre drew a Bretonnian 9:11 and our captain crushed their WoC. So quite a volatility here. :) It was not what we hoped for but we still had a chance for a good placement.

Author:  Thraundil [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Tough going. From my perspective you should probably have laid down a hailstorm of comets from behind the building! Take down the war machines fast, and your pegasus have completely free reign. Their strength does not lie in the fact that one pegasus is strong. It lies in the fact that 3 pegasus characters charging together are near unstopable. Think of what they would do to that silver helm unit!

Deploymentwise, you can set up behind the building such that if his units wish to enter the forest, you just run away to the center. If he comes from the center, run to the forest. If he splits up, use your more plentiful, smaller units and pegasi to smash him. He will have to play with extreme caution, as white lions simply can NOT suffer a charge from witch elves.

Another thing is your pegasus placement. Unlucky to lose him to one singleshot, of course, but even worse to give him the shot. You give your opponent one target. Either give him many (all out assault with the fliers and fast cav) or give him none!

Last but not least, you could, in your situation, handle the silverhelm approach better, too. Their threat is what breaks you, really, since you allow them to come in rather than try to dissuade them, and you need to use your fliers to prevent them and deny them! If you can either reduce them to 5 man with shooting, or get two pegasus characters into them at once (one to take the challenge, the other to lay down the pain), you stand a very real chance of breaking them on a charge.

Just a few things I spot :) your overall game plan, considering the deployment, was pretty good, and your illustration is great.

Author:  Amboadine [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Nice to see another report. They are always enjoyable and coherent. Tough game though.

Author:  T.D. [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 3/5: Lizardmen

Illustrated batreps are always appreciated :)

Marchosias wrote:
Maybe I should have taken this even further and placed the spearmen bunker right behind the house (then, should he not split the blocks, I would have easily escaped, and if he did the phoenix guard was not that numerous so I should have been able to defeat it somehow).

I agree with you here. The house whilst providing cover for your bunker also gave you greater potential to split or evade his main blocks.

But hindsight is always 20/20 :P

Your use of your mobile elements and taking out of his missile threat was impressive ...though perhaps a few shots on the Silver Helms might have subsequently helped you out in the key combat.

Author:  Marchosias [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Thank you all for your input!

I agree deploying the spearmen behind the house would have been better. I had not the comet, sadly (my rolls for spells were terrible in this tourney) but still.
I was probably too passive with the general. BSB was reasonably placed, protecting the sorceress, but the dreadlord could have come further to the west and helped against silver helms, bolt throwers or something. I was probably too scared of the bolt throwers. (And I underestimated what a soul quench can do, otherwise I would have protected my PoS master better. I just never realized before that boosted soul quench needs only 16+ to succeed which is quite easy to roll with +5 to cast.)

@ Thraundil: Ten witches can hardly really endanger a unit of 26 lions with a 4++ ward. How many can they kill, five? And then the girls get butchered. A flank charge would is better but I would need something to attack from the other flank, too. And even if I succeed, his characters can tank some attacks, too. If I am counting correctly, you need 49 witch elf attacks to force through a wound on the anointed (3+ armour with reroll, 3++ ward for high magic). I do not say the unit cannot be beaten but I have to be considerably more careful than my opponent.

Author:  Thraundil [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Yeah soul quench is in many aspects a sick spell. A standard doombolt is miles better than a standard SQ no doubt, but the boosted SQ is ridiculous.

As for the WE vs WL battle... He only gets the ward save if he gets a good magic phase. Save the scroll... You might be able to limit him to one succesful spell. Should he get more off - just dont charge.

Author:  Marchosias [ Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

My opponent was frequently one-dicing. He was casting most spells on 3+ with Book of Hoeth. He could have failed... but he never did.

Author:  Thraundil [ Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Marchosias wrote:
My opponent was frequently one-dicing. He was casting most spells on 3+ with Book of Hoeth. He could have failed... but he never did.

And this, exactly this, is why high elves, despite their constant whine, should just shut their tramp holes. They have hands down the best arcane item in the game. And the best banner in the game :P

Not much to do against that, sadly. Still risky as hell to one-dice, but when you have luck on your side it can swing a game very fast.

Author:  Swordmaster of Hoeth [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Hi Marchosias,

I spent along time writing up the reply. Analyzing your army, the army of your opponent, then the last game turn by turn. Only to find out the website wanted me to log in again. I experienced that on other forums and in a situation like that I simply hit the "back" button, copied the text, logged in again and pasted it one more time. But it was not possible here and I lost all I have written. :evil:

I will try to do it again but I don't know when I am going to have another opportunity and I really hate the fact all this effort went for nothing. :(

Just wanted to say I like your topic, I have just discovered it and I am looking forward to reading some new reports in the future.


Author:  Marchosias [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Hi Swordmaster,

such a shame! !mad! This is why I always save anything I write at least to the clipboard. Computers are wicked and malicious creatures. :(

Do not stress yourself. I will be glad even for a shortened version. :) In fact, I am glad just for the fact that you like the topic and consider it interesting enough to reply. :)

By the way, guess whose influence caused me to use 2x 10 executioners? ;)

Author:  Swordmaster of Hoeth [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Hi Marchosias,

Let's try again before all the amazing comments I have written before are going to evaporate from my mind completely. :)

It will be a shorter version though (and who knows, maybe it is better this way!)

Your army

I think it is counter-charging force. It has very good shooting in the form of 4 bolt throwers, support in the form of 2 units of reavers, warlocks, shades and harpies and good combat potential thanks to 2 small infantry regiments and 3 pegasus riders. The speed of the fliers, as well as their good protection, allows you to deal with some war machines and be able to come back to help the combat units.

Spears are actually very good here because they provide ranks other units lack and have reasonable protection from spells due to MR(3). At the same time Heavens Lore is good one to motivate the enemy to move towards you so that you can inflict some damage from the distance. And you need to as despite good combat capabilities you don't have that many regiments for fighting.

HE army

Your opponent has very good infantry, very resilient and supported by characters. Thanks to ward saves and High Magic they are tougher than your units. 9 strong regiment of Silver Helms also acts as a hammer unit in this game as they are capable of dealing enough damage to your small units. 4 regiments of cavalry provide good support and 4 bolt throwers make life of your own support units difficult.

He is better in combat but he is slower and you have advantage in the support, speed and shooting. Hence, he is interested in getting to combat quickly while you should play it more like shooting and avoidance style. Once the enemy support is destroyed and his bolt thrower neutralized you should have freedom to set combined charges of your combat units with flying characters.


In my opinion this is the most important phase of the game and many battles are won or lost at this stage already. I think your Dark Riders vanguard forward was very risky as you seemed to assume you are going to get first turn. If you didn't you would lose them immediately and they are your great asset so exposing them like that was not in your best interest.

I also think Shades were way too far from the other regiments and could not impact the game as they should have.

I presume Spears were the last unit to place as you wanted to see where the enemy is and how to avoid it. By placing it in the corner you limited your options and forced yourself to seek break through in combat. Very risky. You also constrained yourself by that deployment as your executioners were unable to support spears properly.

I think that better position was at the edge of deployment behind the building. This way you put more distance between the armies (his infantry would need 3 turns to even reach charge distance) and keep the options to move left or right open. You also get the advantage of not being in the range of soul quench early. And the less spells he casts the worse ward save he gets.

The game

I disagree that the main reason you lost was due to prolonged combat against Silver Helms. I think it was a consequence of the deployment that limited your options, committing Dark Riders too early and losing them for not much of a gain and making a mistake with harpies by sending them where they were efficiently march blocked. If you only kept them where they were at the beginning you would have been able to buy more time for Spears to grind through Silver Helms and protect them from being outflanked.

You had superiority in the movement phase but by losing Fast Cavalry and not being able to call Harpies back you were forced to react to the movement of the slower enemy but the enemy who kept cohesive battle line and could advance unobstructed.

You also were very passive with your characters, even when you had silenced his 3 bolt throwers. At least that is how I understand it from the information provided as we don't have details on how the game progressed after turn 3.

As an alternative to your push with Spears I would like to consider the following:

- you pull back and stay behind the bolt throwers
- your enemy can choose longer charge with Silver Helms against bolt throwers. If he chooses to do so he is exposed to either counter charge of Executioners to the flank (if he overruns into spears) or by Executioners and Spears. In fact, counter charge with Executioners and BSB alone would be more than enough and would give you chance to move Spears away too.
- if the enemy didn't charge then it is all good because they are exposed to another turn of shooting and magic.
- if they move forward they are also entering the danger zone due to flying characters. BSB alone would be able to hold and grind down HE knights, especially if the relative positioning of the other two elite infantry would not allow to counter attack

All the above is not meant to be a criticism. I have the advantage of analyzing the game with more time to spend and cool head. I tried not to do so with the benefit of hindsight and I don't assume my suggestions are in any case superior. I simply offer food for thought but I also believe the things I suggested are beneficial to you. I am more than happy to discuss it in more details!

I believe that majority of games are in fact won and lost in the deployment and movement phases. The rest is more consequence of these. It is of course possible that particular event that happens in the game was unlikely but at the same time it is good to try and anticipate the outcomes regardless of the dice rolls.

Your combat between Spears and Silver Helms was a good example. You were confident to win that fight but it was still beneficial to move units better so if the things didn't go well there was some help nearby. For example, even angling your spears towards the center a little might have allowed nearby executioners to charge from the front too. You would add probably 4 models to the fight but that could have been all you needed to shift the balance into your favor and you could have broken the enemy. At the same time his Lions would have been unable to flank charge you.

As you can see at each stage there is something to consider. Even if we make mistakes it does not mean they are always irreversible as they can actually create new opportunities too.

I am also prepared to be told I know nothing and I talk silly things :)


Author:  Swordmaster of Hoeth [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

As to the Executioners I am sure it was Rowena's influence as she had that fantastic idea for conversion and created unique and outstanding regiments :)

Author:  Calisson [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Great comments from Swordie! Thanks. Glad to read from you.

Author:  Rowena [ Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
As to the Executioners I am sure it was Rowena's influence as she had that fantastic idea for conversion and created unique and outstanding regiments :)

:oops: :oops: :oops: Thank you, I am honoured you like them. But the conversion idea is always joint work with us (and we usually don't even remember who came up with what exactly), even if I am the one who actually makes the idea reality because I'm the arts and crafts fan. And Marchosias is the one who builds the army, he is the one who omes up with what units we need to invent.

Author:  Swordmaster of Hoeth [ Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Hi guys,

@ Callison

Thanks for the kind words! I hope Marchosias would find them useful :)

@ Rowena

You welcome! No need to belittle your part though. I know you are working as a team and that is fantastic! Keep up the good work and be rightly proud of the effects. I meant every word I wrote, so keep these beautiful miniatures coming. :)


Author:  T.D. [ Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I am also prepared to be told I know nothing and I talk silly things :)

You are being rather overly modest here :)

It is obvious you are a veteran gamer with keen sensibilities, so your thoughts are always welcome reading!

Author:  Swordmaster of Hoeth [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Thanks for the kind words T.D.! I of course hope my feedback is useful. But I will let Mr. Marchosias to be the ultimate judge of that since it is his topic and his report :)


Author:  Calisson [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

T.D. wrote:
You are being rather overly modest here :)
That's very undruchii. :evil:
But that's even more unasur. :?
:idea: Must be cunning rather than modest. And that is Druchii! :twisted: Swordie is becoming one of us! :D

Author:  Jvh792 [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost colony chronicle - ETC Team Tourney 4/5: High Elves

Well done on the batrep. Mistakes were made, but I find making pictured batreps of the games I lose to be the most helpful for learning

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