Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Moderator: The Dread Knights
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I love more warhammer. However, unfortunately, this is my busy season, so having the extra time to get the games in is really preferable. Sorry to be a poopy-pants nay-sayer.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Marky wrote:I'd like to start the next round a little earlier than originally planned but would keep the period +- the same (so always giving all players a month / 3 weeks)
A question, are we allowed to change our list? (I'd like to make some minor tweakings)
Marky
You most certainly can change the list each round, only stipulation is that you stick with the same race.
Knighted wrote:I love more warhammer. However, unfortunately, this is my busy season, so having the extra time to get the games in is really preferable. Sorry to be a poopy-pants nay-sayer.
I think we could compromise here. If everyone is aligned we kick off the list submission period earlier but still keep the original round 2 deadline, which was going to be 24th April. If all games are completed earlier then all well and good and we can reassess for round 3. Easter period falls into this window, so having the extra time to get games in might actually help.
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I'm ok with that.
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I'm scheduled to get the final game in today, at 6PM GTM.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Killerk wrote:I'm scheduled to get the final game in today, at 6PM GTM.
Grand! I look forward to your result if you guys play anything but a 20-0 to either side, its pretty much guaranteed that I am to play the winner of your game. If you do play a 20-0 result, its all in the VP differentials whom will be playing on the "number 2 table"
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
- Daeron
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Provided this doesn't put pressure on the last match, it sounds fun to continue to the next round. Since you request new submissions, does this mean we all get to submit a new list or continue with the list we have now?
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Daeron wrote:Provided this doesn't put pressure on the last match, it sounds fun to continue to the next round. Since you request new submissions, does this mean we all get to submit a new list or continue with the list we have now?
As last match is tonight, I don't foresee any issues.
Correct, you may adjust your list for round two to compensate for first round learnings, providing that you stick to the same race.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Just making sure here... Can we modify lists between every round, or is round 2 and onwards the final army list which we must use for the remainder of the tourney?
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Thraundil wrote:Just making sure here... Can we modify lists between every round, or is round 2 and onwards the final army list which we must use for the remainder of the tourney?
You can adjust every round
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
We finished, the game was an absolute delight to play ChrispyC.
I made an error in counting points I lost 1199 sorry for that.
Killerk : ChrispyC
2097:1199 VP's
12:7 (4+3 scenario points)
So a small victory for me, which I'm very glad to walk away with.
-----
I lost
sorcerer 201
chariot 115
2x hounds 30 + 40 (vanguard)
2x forsaken 105+105
2x marauders 105+105+50 (banners)
knights 343 (didn't claim banner as they fled)
I had left
lord 1 - 350
lord 2 - 365
lord 3 - 370
BSB - 164
Total 2398
I made an error in counting points I lost 1199 sorry for that.
Killerk : ChrispyC
2097:1199 VP's
12:7 (4+3 scenario points)
So a small victory for me, which I'm very glad to walk away with.
-----
I lost
sorcerer 201
chariot 115
2x hounds 30 + 40 (vanguard)
2x forsaken 105+105
2x marauders 105+105+50 (banners)
knights 343 (didn't claim banner as they fled)
I had left
lord 1 - 350
lord 2 - 365
lord 3 - 370
BSB - 164
Total 2398
Last edited by Killerk on Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
It was a very enjoyable game, KillerK was a perfect gentleman at putting up with my stupid questions and generally being a good laugh. Thanks a lot, hopefully I'll be able to give you a better match next time
- Marchosias
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
You know, when I was proposing the scenarios they were all zero-sum: exactly 20 points in total divided between the players, always, no matter what. No idea if this can still be brought back in the system. Does not really matter that much probably.
I think drawing the next pairs sooner would be nice. Gives us more time to actually set up the games. I think we were all very enthusiastic about this first round but real life might come and bite us soon, making next rounds last longer.
I think drawing the next pairs sooner would be nice. Gives us more time to actually set up the games. I think we were all very enthusiastic about this first round but real life might come and bite us soon, making next rounds last longer.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
well not all scenario points were claimed
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Congratulations on the victory KillerK! Looks like its you and me for round 2, then =)
And cool that we can prepare for every round. Flexibility is awesome, and playing several styles is too... Although why I should change a winning combo I do not know
And cool that we can prepare for every round. Flexibility is awesome, and playing several styles is too... Although why I should change a winning combo I do not know
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Marchosias wrote:You know, when I was proposing the scenarios they were all zero-sum: exactly 20 points in total divided between the players, always, no matter what. No idea if this can still be brought back in the system. Does not really matter that much probably.
There has been a couple of cases where the zero sum just hasn't been available. For instance Thraundil claimed the hill without a standard, and in the Killerk/ChrispyC game not all quarters were occupied.
I think this will actually drive more focus into the scenarios, especially in close games later in the Tournament.
Draw will follow after list submission, for which I will reopen the list submission thread shortly. In a few cases you may be able to work out who you think you should be playing next, but this might not necessarily be the case, especially as I will adjust for players that have competed previously against each other and other members may wish to join in.
So anyway the league table is below. Sorted by Points / Wins / Draws / *Alphabetically (*Later I will consider results against each other in the case of equal standings)
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I assume that we will be using a swiss draw, and that new players entering the league will not suddenly be paired against the winners from last round? I mean, I strongly assume that new entries will come in at 0 points :p
Looking good with the position! The two 20-pointers can now safely dismember each other whilst I claim another 16+ points from KillerK
Looking good with the position! The two 20-pointers can now safely dismember each other whilst I claim another 16+ points from KillerK
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
- Daeron
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
The Swiss Draw will prevent me from using excuses like "I was always paired up with the toughest, best player! No fair!". There is only so much noobishness I'm willing to admit.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
For the Scenario that we play you could assume that the table quarters are owned by players who's deployment zones they are in, unless the enemy has a non fleeing unit there, or fortitude is even better. This way the points will always belong to some one, and you will always have the full 20 points awarded.
I'll just fiddle with the magic items a bit and submit my list.
Thraundil my units have now got an apatite for elf flesh .
I'll just fiddle with the magic items a bit and submit my list.
Thraundil my units have now got an apatite for elf flesh .
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Thraundil wrote:I assume that we will be using a swiss draw, and that new players entering the league will not suddenly be paired against the winners from last round? I mean, I strongly assume that new entries will come in at 0 points :p
Pretty safe assumptions
Draw just get slightly more complicated as we go on to ensure no one plays the same player or same scenario more than once.
For the Scenario that we play you could assume that the table quarters are owned by players who's deployment zones they are in, unless the enemy has a non fleeing unit there, or fortitude is even better. This way the points will always belong to some one, and you will always have the full 20 points awarded.
To be honest I quite like having the occasional odd number come up from the scenario point. Prior to any follow up tournaments perhaps we should have a design a scenario contest, so that we have a good base of new or different ideas to draw upon. Something for those non writer or painters to get involved with.
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
Draw system
I think it should be somewhat random. Otherwise I know with absolute certainty that I am going to playing Watz which might make me bring an anti-orc roster (whatever this actually means ). My suggestion is: add to the points of each player a random number (say 1-5 times the number of rounds that had already happened) and use the swiss system on the new results. This way, it cannot happen I will play Daeron in the next round but I might end up playing Cihan for example which will force me to stil have an all-round list prepared.
Scenario points
The scenarios can be made zero-sum easily. If in KOTH, the centre is held by a bannerless unit, then the controlling player can get three points and his opponent one. The adjustment to table quarters was proposed by KillerK. The scenario still matters but no action benefits both players at once. Non-zero sum games, that is, games that can distribute anywhere from 16 to 20 points, could potentially lead to weird situations. For example:
Suppose I am playing KOTH and losing badly. Pure victory points would give a 15-1, I am only having one fast cavalry unit left and if I lose it, it becomes 16-0. It is the last turn, though, and I can use the fast cavalry to redirect my enemy's unit trying to capture the centre. In the current wording, if I do not redirect and just hide the fast cav somewhere we both gain: the game will end at 19-1 instead of 16-0 which would be the resul should I redirect. This is bad, as in my opinion, each action of a player should be aimed at harming the opponent somehow (even through not giving up any more points for example). With the rewording, redirection would be a better alternative because I would lose one point for the fast cav but gain two points for scenario (no one controls the point = scenario was a draw = both players get two points).
It is probably not that important though so I am shutting up now.
I think it should be somewhat random. Otherwise I know with absolute certainty that I am going to playing Watz which might make me bring an anti-orc roster (whatever this actually means ). My suggestion is: add to the points of each player a random number (say 1-5 times the number of rounds that had already happened) and use the swiss system on the new results. This way, it cannot happen I will play Daeron in the next round but I might end up playing Cihan for example which will force me to stil have an all-round list prepared.
Scenario points
The scenarios can be made zero-sum easily. If in KOTH, the centre is held by a bannerless unit, then the controlling player can get three points and his opponent one. The adjustment to table quarters was proposed by KillerK. The scenario still matters but no action benefits both players at once. Non-zero sum games, that is, games that can distribute anywhere from 16 to 20 points, could potentially lead to weird situations. For example:
Suppose I am playing KOTH and losing badly. Pure victory points would give a 15-1, I am only having one fast cavalry unit left and if I lose it, it becomes 16-0. It is the last turn, though, and I can use the fast cavalry to redirect my enemy's unit trying to capture the centre. In the current wording, if I do not redirect and just hide the fast cav somewhere we both gain: the game will end at 19-1 instead of 16-0 which would be the resul should I redirect. This is bad, as in my opinion, each action of a player should be aimed at harming the opponent somehow (even through not giving up any more points for example). With the rewording, redirection would be a better alternative because I would lose one point for the fast cav but gain two points for scenario (no one controls the point = scenario was a draw = both players get two points).
It is probably not that important though so I am shutting up now.
The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
So what are peoples opinion on Marchosias suggestions?
Table quarters I think would either work as Killerk's suggestion, or if unoccupied perhaps just assign 1/2 point each.
KOTH could do with a rewording and clarity if everyone wants zero sum.
I am happy to go back and adjust points to round 20's if that is the consensus and we can reword the scenarios slightly and adjust the first round results accordingly.
This is your tournament guys, I am basically doing the paperwork. So I will leave this open for discussion. Also if there are other scenarios that you feel would give odd results, then this is a good time to highlight it.
Table quarters I think would either work as Killerk's suggestion, or if unoccupied perhaps just assign 1/2 point each.
KOTH could do with a rewording and clarity if everyone wants zero sum.
I am happy to go back and adjust points to round 20's if that is the consensus and we can reword the scenarios slightly and adjust the first round results accordingly.
This is your tournament guys, I am basically doing the paperwork. So I will leave this open for discussion. Also if there are other scenarios that you feel would give odd results, then this is a good time to highlight it.
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I think 1/2 points are kind of weird.
- Thraundil
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Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
I like the design of scenarios such that a total of 20 points are always divided amongst the players... But I think we should keep it as is for now - just for the sake of fairness/consistency within the same tournament.
I also think the draw should be straight up swiss. It might be that I have 100% knowledge (currently that is safe to say) that I will meet KillerK, and so I can tailor. But so can he. We both have the same knowledge. Adding random numbers to the draw can lead to the effect that all us int he top 3 end up meeting someone other than each other - which just catapults us further away from everyone. A straight swiss draw ensures that only a few players make up the hard top and bottom, with a distributed field. A random draw risks 4 players on 35-40 points and 4 players on 0 points after two rounds, which I do not like at all. #1 and #2 should play each other and so on - this is what I think.
If it is then a problem with list tailoring or with the draw, I cannot say. Perhaps, the better way to correct this in the future is NOT allow for list modifications. Or, maybe, to limit list modifications to "only after round 1 to correct for small errors, and theres a limit to how much you can change" or so.
KillerK: I have slain many chaos warriors. Now, this number will just grow a tiny bit larger. The elves will persist.
I also think the draw should be straight up swiss. It might be that I have 100% knowledge (currently that is safe to say) that I will meet KillerK, and so I can tailor. But so can he. We both have the same knowledge. Adding random numbers to the draw can lead to the effect that all us int he top 3 end up meeting someone other than each other - which just catapults us further away from everyone. A straight swiss draw ensures that only a few players make up the hard top and bottom, with a distributed field. A random draw risks 4 players on 35-40 points and 4 players on 0 points after two rounds, which I do not like at all. #1 and #2 should play each other and so on - this is what I think.
If it is then a problem with list tailoring or with the draw, I cannot say. Perhaps, the better way to correct this in the future is NOT allow for list modifications. Or, maybe, to limit list modifications to "only after round 1 to correct for small errors, and theres a limit to how much you can change" or so.
KillerK: I have slain many chaos warriors. Now, this number will just grow a tiny bit larger. The elves will persist.
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
Re: Druchii.net UB Tournament 15 First Round Draw
As to draw, I'll play anything, be it swis, random or every one plays every one.
If my opponents tailor their list to take me down.... well I like a good challenge. Worst case scenario I'll loose the game, and go cry in some dark corner . Best case I'll still beat him . There is no dishonor when loosing when your outmatched, but loosing when you out match your opponent.... thats got to hurt .
If my opponents tailor their list to take me down.... well I like a good challenge. Worst case scenario I'll loose the game, and go cry in some dark corner . Best case I'll still beat him . There is no dishonor when loosing when your outmatched, but loosing when you out match your opponent.... thats got to hurt .