new unit ideas

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Killbot2000
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new unit ideas

Post by Killbot2000 »

Hello im just new to druchii.net and warhammer itself only been playing 3 months.
Anyway I was just noticing the dark elf lack of core troups. It only has 3 core choices. Most other races have quight a few. Does anyone have any ideas for new units. I was thinking along the lines of a unit that could provide some strengh and toughness that the army lacks. Perhaps wariors of the waste, "poorly equiped but thick of skin the warriors of the waste have developed unatural strength to deal with the lack weapondry. Upon reuniting with the dark elfs there potential was ovious to the war masters. They ofered them an honoured place in the dark elf army and new wepondry. The warriors of the waste soon found the dark elf weapons made for finess and speed were usless to them and soon returned to there primitive weapons. Considered as an insult to the warlords the wariors were soon looked down apon as nothing more than a living shield. There victorys were few but there resolve renouned they are the wariors of the waste.
I was also thinking some sort of swarm unit, Carion or insect sworm.
Any one else have ideas
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Post by Freebooter »

Nah, I can't think of any unit we could use (except Ironbreakers maybe :D ) but I think either Shades or Execs should be Core rather than Special choice.. But I do agree with you in that we should get more Core choices.
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Post by Loki »

You forget that in the HE list they offer you archers and spearmen. Our rxb unit and spear unit are under the same entry even though they are almost two different units. So really you have 4 basic core choices (in essence)
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Post by Heldrak »

The best additional core unit would be Slaves, some kind of cheap throwaway unit that we could use in a multitude of battlefield roles (bait, missile screen, cheap rank bonus provider etc.). Uneqipped Chaos Marauder fill this role in the COS list, but it would be nice to have something similar in the standard list as well.
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Post by Anaryin »

Killbot, this thread will be moved to the Ideas forum. It will get the attention it deserves there ;)
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Post by Deathangel_321 »

I still want shades as core. They're hardly all powerfull.
Or at least a new Shade List. :)
Demon or Sprite swams would be cool.
Marauder-like people wold be nice, but I don't think it'll get into DE codex. Maybe sometime...
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Post by Slayer69 »

I really like the idea of some slaves in the army....I however would favour a medium cavalery unit...for that purpose I think that there should be the option of arming your BR with lances and shields, maybee eves heavy armour....of course their move would be reduced to 16/14 and they would no longer count as fast cavalery......I think a model at 26-24 points would be fair
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Post by Darmort »

I want a new unit, yes, but a unit that isn't over powered, or underpowered. A unit than has the ability to do some damage, but not too much.

Maybe a unit of House Guard, with Halberds, Champion and Standard Bearer at 12+ Points and Musicain at 6+ Points, then Light Armour.
And of course, Spearmen Stats and all normal Dark Elf Rules. At the Points cost of, what? 10 Points?

Still, I think other races need more Core Choices than others.
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Post by Killbot2000 »

its not that i think dark elfs lack in ability for core choices. They are rather nice units, its more i like the variety. diferent abilitys and tactical abilitys make for more unpredictable armies. A wall type of unit that is easy to sacrifice and will still get you most of the way over the field, would be excelent vs defensive armies. Sure we have corsairs to deflect missle fire but they are a unit you want to fight not get choped to threads by that nasty hunter hiding behind trees. I just see orcs and skaven with there 8+ core choises and face it im greedy to see 8 new units of dark elfs. one of the most stylish races. thanks for the posts everyone.
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Post by Dark-and-dreary »

i like the idea of swarms. maybe crow or some time of bird swarms controlled by a mandantory sorceress. the slaves also sound nice maybe with human or high elf stats :D
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Post by Druchiishootlord »

I do like the idea as well of another core unit in the DE army. We do have 6 different Special choices i don't see the harm it would do to move the shades or executioners to core. Of course they would be expensive core but that might throw our list a little out of wack.

I just the Shades but i never seem to fit any in until 3K pts for a list. This isn't really a bad unit at all, in fact they are quite good for scouts. It is a shame they aren't used to often.

*tear* poor shades that leave their babies to die in that cold cold night =P
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Post by Wackojacko55 »

has anyone read the TK book?
we cant have insects or carrions as a swarm choice cause they already have them.
but what we could use is dark sprites.
goes something like this:

Dark sprites: 21 pts/model
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 0 3 3 4 4 3 7

Weapons and equipment:

poisened claws(counts as 2 poisoned hand weapons)

Special rules:

Swarm

Malovent spirits: to use dark sprites in an army you must hav at least 1 sorceress/magic user (characters who weild magic items dont count)

scouts


and for slaves


Slaves: 4 pts/model controler: 7 pts/model
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
slave 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 5
controler 4 4 4 3 3 1 5 1 7

The whole back row must be only controlers and they cannot fight till in base contact

Weapons and equipment:
slaves carry hand weapon
controlers carry 2 hand weapons

Special rules:

slaves suffer from frenzy

Captured:
slaves must use their own leadership unless there is a controler in the front rank.
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Post by Seanzala »

Little Murderer said:
Or at least a new Shade List.


My friend (T'zarken) and I are working on a blackspine mountains list at the moment. Ill post it when we are finished
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Post by Deathangel_321 »

Great, I did one a while back, I'll see what you did different. Let me know when it's done!

Nice sprite rules, although 2 hand weapons may be a little hard to work out...
I like the poison.
Don't turn this into the banned slave threads people. Those rules are a little strange too. Not that bad... Frenzy? What, posions? THey get to go onto other side if unfrenzied?

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Post by Racheth_the_slayer »

loving the sprites but the slaves could be better i had the idea

M WS BS S T L
Slave 4 3 3 3 3 6
Master 5 4 4 3 3 8


Wargear:
hand weapon

Options:
Drugged (+2 pts per model)
One model may be a Slave master (+8pts)-slave masters must stay at the back of the unit,

Special rules:

Slave's: If a slave unit is not led by a slave master roll a d6 at the beginning of your opponents turn on a 4,5 or 6 they act normally on a 1,2 or 3 your opponent controls them for the turn and your next turn. Drugged slaves ignore this rule.

Drugged: Drugged slaves become frenzied and ignore the Slave's rule
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Post by Baranthazul »

Please, lets not hijack this thread and make it locked.
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Post by Moonblade »

Good. I will be happy if we could have an extra Core choice.
Perphaps something with specific function, becouse we already have enough ordinary troops.
Swarms are very very good idea! I like it.
Well slaves are also a goon idea, but ... I am not so cruel and I will have inself confrontations in my mind...sorry i dislike the slavery at all. Perhaps I have chosen the wrong race,but...

So, a swarm is nice. Sprites will fit. I will think about another suggestion and will post it when it is done.
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Post by Baranthazul »

MoonBlade wrote:Perphaps something with specific function, becouse we already have enough ordinary troops.


Isn't this the definition of core? Shouldn't our core be ordinary troops? Look at any army book (Chaos being different), their core are just "ordinary" troops.
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Post by Ilokir lúinwë »

I don't know why everyone wants to get slaves as core unit? Imo, a slave army is forsaking the essence of purity and eltiteness of a DE army, which has to strike with precision and accuracy. If you really want to include slaves in an army list, I should prefer them as special choice, cannonfodder. I can't imagine a general setting up slaves as a core troop, expecting them to fight among his noble warriors, he would only do so if he sees fit, when there is a very good reason to do so (see the story of Ruerl).
The idea of sprites is promising though, but I don't exactly see the tactical valour of them in a DE army. The only way I would use them is as a mage's companion/familiar (as is already the case with Morathi)
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Post by Wackojacko55 »

the reason everybody would like slaves as core is as follows:

1. special and rare are defined as elite. slaves are not elite
2. no one in their right mind would but cannon fodder units as special. anyway we already have enough special units
3. the core slot fits with the fact that they are easy to get/capture.
4. imagine if you got 2 special choices of slaves and decided to use them as cannon fodder. that means you will only be able to take 2 other special choices.

thats a few points why slaves should no MUST be core units but i suppose you could put a restriction on them........
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Post by Lord jebus man sir guy »

how bout this:

Unit Size: 15+
Slaves, 4 pts a model
Slavedriver, 8 pts a model

Slave:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 2 0 3 3 1 3 1 5
Slaves have hand weapons
Slave Driver:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 5 4 3 3 1 5 1 8
Slavedrivers carry two whips(two hand weapons)
Special Rule;

SLAVEDRIVERS:
For every 15 slaves in a unit there must be one slavedriver, the slavedriver must stay at the back of the unit.

DRUGGED:
Before the battle the Dark Elves cover the slaves food in special drugs that empower the slaves greatly, like steroids

slaves can be drugged for plus 2 points a model, this adds +1 to all of their stats.

WORTHLESS SLAVES:
A unit of shades, repeater crossbow warriors or a Reaper Bolt Thrower may shoot into a combat consisting of only slaves, a slavedriver, and an enemy unit.
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Post by Lethalis »

the reason everybody would like slaves as core is as follows:

Everybody?

1. special and rare are defined as elite

Are goblin chariots elite? Are Marauders in a beast army elite? Is a snotling pimp wagon elite?

2. no one in their right mind would but cannon fodder units as special. anyway we already have enough special units

Exactly, so no need for slaves.

3. the core slot fits with the fact that they are easy to get/capture

Are they so easy to capture then? How many survive the journeys? Very few, so special choice fits it better. Special happens to represent not only elite units, but generally that are less common than core.

4. imagine if you got 2 special choices of slaves and decided to use them as cannon fodder. that means you will only be able to take 2 other special choices

That's a choice an army general would need to make. It's not like everything should be tossed on your silver plate and you make the ideal army.

thats a few points why slaves should no MUST be core units but i suppose you could put a restriction on them

Slaves as core would just be silly. There is no way they wil ever exceed the number of Druchii warriors, Dark Riders or Corsairs.

Unit Size: 15+
Slaves, 4 pts a model
Slavedriver, 8 pts a model

So you're really thinking about making a 68 point fodder unit? How about starting to think what Druchii are about? Not about using flodders, because else GW would have given them a long time ago.

Now, I won't go in detail about the whole idea, because it's not worth it. Slaves do not fit in Druchii armies. It's rather easy to see when you look at it without thoughts to protect your Black Guard or just wanting to have another unit or to shoot at your own troops.

First of all, there are only two mentionings of slaves in battle in the book. So that alone implies that slaves are not very commonly used for battle, and as such using them as a Core Unit in a Dark Elf army would be ignoring the oh-so obvious fluff. It can only be seen to add a cheap unit to screen your more expensive and fragile warriors without sacrificing too much slots. But the whole Druchii idea is to risk a lot, and as a dying race every casualty should indeed hurt.

Secondly, the first mention of slaves in the Lord Yeurl story. "Here you can see so clearly that slaves are indeed used in battle". But of course. As long as you forget the slaves never fight the enemy , but are rather tried to get freed by the Brets, and as long as you forget that Lord Yeurl only wanted some impeding terrain because of the slaves, not causing casualties, you're fine. But when you start thinking about this, there is only one way to represent this kind of act, and it doesn't even consist of shooting your own troops during battle. Make a pile of dead slaves and call it "difficult terrain". Now, that wasn't too hard, right?

The second mention of slaves is in the assault of Ulthuan by Malekith. I would consider it great arrogance if you think that any noble elf, or sometimes not even that but just a sorceress, can decide to give the same order as the King to bring out the slaves. Heck, if Malekith can decide to finally use slaves in one major, possibly world-changing assult, then why wouldn't the average, under-payed noble could decide that, right? After all, there's not much difference between him and the King of the enitre race, nooo...Get my point? Malekith planned an entire invasion, and those kind of campaigns require his precious soldiers to stay alive when they perform a storm attack. But that was a one-time occassion, do you really think that he wouldn't use it more often if he didn't care anyway? Do you think he would waste his precious slaves?

Precious slaves? Precious slaves? Did he just say "precious" slaves? Yeah, I did. What kind of stupid mind do I have, right?

How many slaves survive the terrible journey to Naggaroth? The only source we have says 3 out of every 30, or 1 out of 10, for humans at least. So any slave that arrives in Naggaroth is precious, cause, as said before, there aren't many of them. Also, slaves are not used for battle. They are much more handy as woodcutters, mine workers, sacrifices that ensure good luck and eternal youth et all, and so forth. Sometimes, they are gifted to noble kids to play with (ah, an executioner in the making, how cute), and all of those uses are good enough for them. Using them in battle would be an enourmous waste, as slaves are only good to profit from. Now, Yeurl needed to sacrifice those slaves in order to profit from them, and he knew he could make new ones. Now, if you're certain you can charge Brets with Cold One knights, and Brets have only knights and you can charge them all, without losing too much casualties, I guess you could use slaves. But this is a little bit hard to do game-wise, don't you think?

All in all, this issue has been discussed to death. I have brought no new arguements, and you have bought no new ideas. As long as you don't come up with some good new ideas, it's no use discussing this. That's kinda why there is a No More Slave Topics! topic at the top of the forum. Guess you never saw it, huh? Perhaps it's worth taking a look.
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Post by Nagathi »

Slave topics are a no-no. Please summon a new thread if you want to discuss anything else but slaves.

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