What would it take for you to take the Cauldron?

Malachi · Post by **Malachi** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:55 pm

I have never used it myself.

The main rason for this was that I did not like the way the model was painted in the armybook. However, in one of my recent aquisitions, I got one and I have to say that the model is trully sweet.

However, I still have not assembeled it but I am planning to use it in a TOK style army offically (until ours gets published), as I have now acquired a virtual gunline with my 8 RBT, a vertible butcher convention with my 40 or so exes and my love fest of 40+ witch elves.
I can see the potential of it especially with its enhanced abilities and I am very keen to try a defensive start with an offensive finish style approach.

I just have to have the time, patience and strength to put it all together and paint them up to a better than table top standard! Or maybe it will be the undercaot army of Khaine's red death!.

Cheers,

Malachi

Lethalis · Post by **Lethalis** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:58 pm

I decided that I have to get one, after a loooong series of appalling rolls to wound

Meh, it's not like those Bolt Throwers did anything for me...

Slerac fellblade · Post by **Slerac fellblade** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:15 pm

I think the fact that it only really effects Witch Elves which almost require movement to be viable. Especially at 13pts a Model. I would use a Cauldron of Blood as a pices on a display board. Something in the Polystyrene. Because that Khaine statue is cool.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:50 pm

Wasn't the old model cauldron mounted on a wooden frame and pushed along? That seemed/seems the best way for things to go...

By the way, I'm not sure who said it, but if you make the cauldron move for +50 pts, you should definately reduce it's aura down to 18" again, or else it will be far too powerful imo. Also, perhaps you should make it so that the crew can't march.

One last thing - I think the poll options were rather poor, as they gave no option for "I love it and use it all the time" (though I don't, I'm confident that someone out there loves the CoB) I find it very useful if you're playing against an army with little to no ranged attack, like VC, so you can let them come to you and thus all your army will be inside the Cauldron's aura.

Slerac fellblade · Post by **Slerac fellblade** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:05 pm

Even against VC it is a waste of points. It is almost 300 points in an army of expensive units.

Dragonblade · Post by **Dragonblade** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:17 pm

I would use it if the re-roll to hit was on every turn and 6+ ward save was for all the troops not only WE. Otherwise I think its useless.

Lethalis · Post by **Lethalis** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:25 pm

Even against VC it is a waste of points. It is almost 300 points in an army of expensive units.

A waste of points would mean it does nothing. Re-rolling rolls to wound does something, so it's not a complete waste of points. Also, how is 205 points "almost 300"?

I would use it if the re-roll to hit was on every turn and 6+ ward save was for all the troops not only WE. Otherwise I think its useless.

Again the point on being useless, it isn't :roll:

And it still does confer a re-roll to wound, not to hit

Slerac fellblade · Post by **Slerac fellblade** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:56 pm

I am sorry Lethalis I got it's points cost confuzzled with the war hydra. Okay 205 points wasted against VC. that is 205 points whiich could be instead 25 spearmen with full command.

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:46 pm

but a cauldron could be the responsible of many VP more that 25 spearmen with command

ive always loved it and it has never let me down

Slerac fellblade · Post by **Slerac fellblade** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:51 pm

Just seems like to ties you down into only one type of play, And it only effects witch elves which is only one unit in an army.

Asperon thorn · Post by **Asperon thorn** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:52 pm

If it could move, I would be more inclined to take it. I like it, I like the rules for it, I just wish it could move. 205 pts is a lot for something that has to sit there in the middle of the field.

Asperon Thorn

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:05 pm

Slerac Fellblade wrote:Just seems like to ties you down into only one type of play, And it only effects witch elves which is only one unit in an army.

it makes all units re-role to wound in CC i think it is more than one

just some of the amazing pointers
-COC charging=D6+1 S5 hits easily half would wound then with the help of COB another half will wound concluding 75%
-executioners re-role faild wound and get another hit at killing blow
-it renders anything with high strength almost 100% wound chance
-my spearmen have managed to slay a carnausaur because of their second chance to role a 6

Wirewolf · Post by **Wirewolf** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:51 pm

Hi

I love my CoB. 2 units of WE, 1 of Exec., 2 spear blocks, 3 or 4 DR all equals good fun. Far more usefull vs. infantry armies with low shooting but can also be usefull vs. heavy cav. (they got to fail thier AS some times)
I find that the CoB army is more of a "to have fun" list as opposed to a Tournament list but then we can't have everything.

Slerac fellblade · Post by **Slerac fellblade** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:07 am

I am just not impressed by the Cauldron of Blood. So I will stop following this thread.

Iandaredh kythorion · Post by **Iandaredh kythorion** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:12 pm

Actually I think CoB is not best for your WEs but for Corsairs.
Why?
Well if I am not mistaken it gives your units frenzy (WE already are frenzied and they pay for it in their cost) and rerolls to wound. So effectively your Corsairs became allmost WEs (they only dont have poison weapons) with much better armour and for 3 points less. also good for your Execs and BGs.
But the frenzy itself is the main weakness, as I said in other thread, because you dont have the choice of fleeing or not charging enemy baits, smart enemy wil pick your units one by one using baiting tactics and your great number of rerolled attacks will be waisted.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:51 pm

Iandaredh Kythorion wrote:Actually I think CoB is not best for your WEs but for Corsairs.
Why?
Well if I am not mistaken it gives your units frenzy (WE already are frenzied and they pay for it in their cost) and rerolls to wound. So effectively your Corsairs became allmost WEs (they only dont have poison weapons) with much better armour and for 3 points less. also good for your Execs and BGs.
But the frenzy itself is the main weakness, as I said in other thread, because you dont have the choice of fleeing or not charging enemy baits, smart enemy wil pick your units one by one using baiting tactics and your great number of rerolled attacks will be waisted.

the Cauldron only makes witch elves frenzied. If the whole army became frenzied, things would get ridiculous.

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:41 pm

It is the centrepiece factor as well as the re-rolls that does it for me. However, it is a tad expensive, but I will try to incorporate it into my 2150 points army (Where I actually have one rare slot open).

Nagathi
The Sacred Sentinel

Iandaredh kythorion · Post by **Iandaredh kythorion** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:32 pm

Franeck - oh sry, my bad reading. Wel then a think it is worth trying it but quite expensive toy for what it does.

Deathrain-commander · Post by **Deathrain-commander** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:48 pm

It has it's uses but the last time I brought it was in a 4000 point army (8000 point game: DE & Lizardmen vs. 8000 points of Empire...intense). For slightly over 200 points (plus whateva you give your Hag) I'd rather take a Hydra.

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:56 pm

Deathrain-commander wrote:It has it's uses but the last time I brought it was in a 4000 point army (8000 point game: DE & Lizardmen vs. 8000 points of Empire...intense). For slightly over 200 points (plus whateva you give your Hag) I'd rather take a Hydra.

you have a point

in larger battles it is much harder to keep within its range so it is forced to be used in normal 2000pt battles where its cost just over 10%. in a larger battle of 4000pts it will only be a little cost but wont be as affective.

Kiwi · Post by **Kiwi** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:04 pm

When you compare to with say the Casket of Souls which is cheaper it really isn't that good.

I think they should make it more offensive. Turn the hag into a level 2 sorceress ( which would make it a bit more expensive ) and give it more of an attacking feel.

Maybe even just extendeding it's effect on WE. Any WE in LOS get a 4+ ward save and have frenzy. I would certainly take it and WE if it had a rule like that. Currently you have to keep you WE reasonably close to it and it doesn't offer much in the way of protection for them.

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:19 pm

Kiwi wrote:When you compare to with say the Casket of Souls which is cheaper it really isn't that good.

I think they should make it more offensive. Turn the hag into a level 2 sorceress ( which would make it a bit more expensive ) and give it more of an attacking feel.

Having it a sorc is totally out of fluff, and it's not being more offensive. Attacking feel with a stand back and magic char? I'm not so sure about that...

Maybe even just extendeding it's effect on WE. Any WE in LOS get a 4+ ward save and have frenzy. I would certainly take it and WE if it had a rule like that. Currently you have to keep you WE reasonably close to it and it doesn't offer much in the way of protection for them.

If your unit is 3 ranks deep, the range of the Cauldron is almost 3 extra inches (only one model in any of the combating units need to be graced by the range for it to affect the whole unit).

Nagathi
The Sacred Sentinel

Deathrain-commander · Post by **Deathrain-commander** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:48 pm

well... I suppose the cauldron could be very useful if you were play defensively because you could keep all your units within it's area of influence. Someone who likes playing Defensively more than I do (I HATE it) should try using it in a siege and making some special rule about it.

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:27 pm

http://www.druchii.net/tok/tok_cob.html
Who have read this yet?

Nagathi
The Sacred Sentinel

What would it take for you to take the Cauldron?

How would you like your Cauldron?