Lifetaker and Cloak of Hag Graef

Columind · Post by **Columind** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:15 pm

I have a couple of questions (just got the book today):

Is lifetaker armor piercing? It says it's a repeater crossbow but it doesn't say armor piercing.

Does the Cloak of Hag Graef cover monster mounts as well? I've heard someone say it does but I can't figure out how.

Macknight · Post by **Macknight** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:32 pm

no and no.

lifetaker is a magic weapon, whatever it says it is, its already S4 rather than S3 AP, 30' rather than 24', 3x shot rather than 2x. if it does have AP it would have described it like the soulrender, and deathpiercer.

cloak only covers the character, the ring of darkness however covers the model, so mount is in.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 pm

repeater crossbows have armour peircing.
lifetaker is a repeater crossbow.
lifetaker therefor has armour peircing.
simple.

Ampao · Post by **Ampao** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:58 pm

Heartrender wrote:repeater crossbows have armour peircing.
lifetaker is a repeater crossbow.
lifetaker therefor has armour peircing.
simple.

repeater crossbows are also S3 and 24" but the lifetaker isn't.

I'd agree lifetaker to be not-armor piercing being that it doesnt say in the rules.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:00 pm

yes, i know it has a better range and strength, thats because its an expensive peice of magical wargear. Its still a repeater crossbow.

or are you telling me lifetaker is not a repeater crossbow?

Ampao · Post by **Ampao** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:06 pm

Heartrender wrote:yes, i know it has a better range and strength, thats because its an expensive peice of magical wargear. Its still a repeater crossbow.

or are you telling me lifetaker is not a repeater crossbow?

Im saying its a repeater crossbow that doesnt have AP in it's rules.

I believe this game is built on rules that does what the rules tell you what it CAN do, not what it CAN'T. Just because the lifetaker does not say it is NOT AP, doesnt mean that it IS.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:07 pm

and just because it doesnt say that it is, doesnt mean that it isnt.

Ampao · Post by **Ampao** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:11 pm

Heartrender wrote:and just because it doesnt say that it is, doesnt mean that it isnt.

Actually yes. Its the sole reason why we have erratas on our weapons. Like the WE weapon Spear of Twilight.

It doesnt say Spear in the rules. So until it was errata'd the Spear of Twilight did not confer +1S on the charge.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:20 pm

hmm okay then, but since i play at home mostly i will use the AP rule on the lifetaker when i use it. Similarly, if something to me is strikingly obvious, i let it slip. My enemy actually plays woodies so if he was using the spear of twilight, id let him use the spear rules on it.

Ampao · Post by **Ampao** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:27 pm

Heartrender wrote:hmm okay then, but since i play at home mostly i will use the AP rule on the lifetaker when i use it. Similarly, if something to me is strikingly obvious, i let it slip. My enemy actually plays woodies so if he was using the spear of twilight, id let him use the spear rules on it.

and I agree playing with house rules. Im just letting the OP know because they might be making a list for RTTs or something.

Peace out!

Emperorpenguin · Post by **Emperorpenguin** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:32 pm

Heartrender wrote:repeater crossbows have armour peircing.
lifetaker is a repeater crossbow.
lifetaker therefor has armour peircing.
simple.

Sorry Heartrender but that's not the case

P121 of the 7th ed Rulebook "Magic weapons always ignore any special rules that apply to an ordinary weapon of the same type unless otherwise specified in the description of the weapon"

On the plus side the "Caledor's Bane" is described as a lance but doesn't have the lance rule, so can be used on foot!

Deroth · Post by **Deroth** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:35 pm

I would not say it gets AP because it doesnt actually say it is a repeated crossbow in its rules like the other magic weapons. They all say counts as hand weapon or great weapon but lifetaker doesnt.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:36 pm

Heartrender wrote:and just because it doesnt say that it is, doesnt mean that it isnt.

Yes it means exactly that it isn't.

If it did, it would say "repeater crossbow" just like Whip of Agony says "beastmaster's scourge" or that the Dagger of Hotek is a "additional hand weapon" and all the other that mention a weapon type.

Darkwand · Post by **Darkwand** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:46 pm

It's not armour piercing. It's a special type of magical repeater crossbow. If it was ap, it would say 3x multiple shots, ap.

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:55 pm

Besides It is S4 so you still negate the same level of Armor while increasing chances to wound, Rate of fire, and range. So wow... you're really gonna nit pick for yet ANOTHER rule for the same weapon? Its magnificent... really leave it be

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:53 pm

i wasnt nit picking, i was just stating what i thought was correct. Obviously i was wrong, sorry

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:25 am

So then beastmasters scourge can be combined with a hand weapon for +1 attack right?

Dggrj · Post by **Dggrj** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:02 am

EDIT: This post was wrong! Saturday (Aug 2, the book, you know) can't come soon enough..

Macknight · Post by **Macknight** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:00 am

the regular BS, yes, and only on foot not the whip of agony as its a magical weapon.

Dggrj · Post by **Dggrj** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:14 am

OMG, I'm sorry, I thought you meant the magic one..

I don't have the book yet, but I didn't think it showed until now.

Sorry, masterofdarkness and others!

Darkwand · Post by **Darkwand** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:10 am

masterofdarkness wrote:So then beastmasters scourge can be combined with a hand weapon for +1 attack right?

Well, it is specified as a hand weapon. I'd say yes, and I'd say you get +1 to your save in close combat when used in conjuction with a shield.

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:14 am

Yes you should be able to because it's a hand weapon with some additional rules.

@Macknight

Why shouldn't you able to use it in conjuction with another hand weapon? It's stated as an hand weapon so it can be combined with others. Just like the dagger of Hotek.

Dggrj · Post by **Dggrj** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:00 am

@izirath: Because unless explicitly stated you can't use a mundane weapon while using a magical weapon, either together with or instead of, according to BRB. Bretonnians can by specific wording, and perhaps the Dagger of Hotek can by specific wording (2 more days for book), but "counts as HW" will in this case just mean shield bonus on foot unless they come FAQ it to say more.

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:05 am

Yea dagger specifically says can be used for +1 attack. In main book says you cant combine a magic weapon with any other weapon.

Darkwand · Post by **Darkwand** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:49 pm

Magic weapons are not hand weapons. For example, sword of might is not a hand weapon. IF a magic weapon DOES say "Hand weapon. blaa blaa blaa" Then it counts as a hand weapon and can be used with a shield and an additiona hw gives +1 attack.