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new army book questions, just bought 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:15 pm
Posts: 15
Elite Troops rule for blackguard? this won't stack with hatred, right?

Gift of Khaine toxins replace poisoned attack rules entirely if you place them on assassins?

Rune of Khaine, plus D3 attacks, this is only for CC right?

will the banner of murder give ranged attacks armor piercing? like for corsair handbows?

Can poisons affect the shurikens?


Biggest suprise in the new book, witch elves still have frenzy! I had thought the going rumor was they didn't. very relieved there.

anyway might have more later, sorry if these are dumb or frequently asked.


Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:53 am
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1. Erm, what? BG reroll misses in all combats i beleive, not just the first, against any enemy.

2. Yes, you replace poison with a toxin

3. Yes, you dont use your A characteristic anywhere else

4. If it says it gives the unit AP, that includes their ranged weapons.

5. Poison affects rending stars


Witch Elves will never lose their frenzy i beleive


Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:58 am
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Corsair
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Shadowblade has listed Poisoned Attacks AND Dark Venom. Which is correct or both since he is a special character?


Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:17 am
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Dark Venom replaces Poison as far as i know


Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:28 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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That is curious, because both are listed... he may be an exception.


Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:43 am
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Corsair
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following the rules stated in the DE army book, Shadowblade, being an assassin, has poisoned attacks. This covers all non-magical weapons he carries (i.e. all his weapons). As he also has Dark Venom, this replaces all his poisoned attacks. So, Dark Venom rending stars = No Dice. Potion of Strength+ Rending Stars = Dee-lish!!

FG


Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:18 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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okay, next dumb question... I am wondering if the red blades on fellheart count as two hand weapons for the purposes of giving him an extra attack?


Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:16 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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They do not as they are Magical Weapons and nothing in the text mentions them getting rules for normal 'Two Hand weapons' - So Lokhir starts with 3A

And you gain additional attacks only against Rank'N'File troops - Fast Cavalry, Skirmishers, Monsters, Characters and Flyers do not give you any additional attacks as they don't even have a first rank - but any other cavalry and Ogres do give you at minimum +1 attack for their minimum of 1 rank.


Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:20 pm
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The Exiled One
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SilverHeindall is correct.
Note however that the Hydra Beastmasters have hand weapon and the beastmaster's scourge - which counts as a hand weapon. These together counts as addiitonal hand weapon and thus grants a beastmaster 3 attacks each. It's oddly worded, but it's how it's designed.

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Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:44 pm
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Well it doesn't necessarily need to say "additional" hand weapon, as long as you have two mundane Hand Weapons and since Beastmaster's Scourge is a Hand Weapon and their profile also say Hand Weapon then they have two, so +1A


Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:50 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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SilverHeimdall wrote:
And you gain additional attacks only against Rank'N'File troops - Fast Cavalry, Skirmishers

This isn't entirely true. Fast cavalry do indeed have ranks, they just don't have any rank bonus. The swords don't mention any rank bonus though, so you will gain at least 1 additional attack. Skirmishers is another thing, as they do "rank up" in CC, but I guess it's a bit more vague in that case. On a sidenote, remember that as the item description is written, there is no maximum number of additional attacks. In case you attack a unit of 8 ranks (skaven anyone?) you will get 8 additional attacks. I guess this might be the target of an errata though.

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:27 am
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Lokir Fellheartagainst skirmishers already discussed:
RAW single-charge on skirmishers: see p.67 of RB.
Lokhir comes in contact with the closest skirmisher, who is aligned base to base on Lokhir.
Two more skirmisher make the front row against Lokhir, because of the principle that as many as possible should be involved in the combat (only 3 of them can be in contact, one is base contact, two are corner contacts). No more skirmisher can be brought in the first line, so remaining skirmishers are set in following ranks. If the unit was made of 10 skirmishers, the result is 4 ranks, the last one being incomplete.
Then Lokhir attacks, with 4 additional attacks!
If less than 3 skirmishers are killed, they can strike back.
If 3 skirmisher are killed, no one strikes back, they have no rank BONUS (as skirmisher), they still get +1 for being more numerous, they lost by 2!

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:23 am
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Shade

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:16 pm
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Faulkynn Grom wrote:
following the rules stated in the DE army book, Shadowblade, being an assassin, has poisoned attacks. This covers all non-magical weapons he carries (i.e. all his weapons). As he also has Dark Venom, this replaces all his poisoned attacks. So, Dark Venom rending stars = No Dice. Potion of Strength+ Rending Stars = Dee-lish!!

FG


Although I am not certain on this, I am inclined to both agree and disagree.

All normal assassins have the Poisoned Attacks special rule representing that their weapons are coated in a particular type of poison that produces a certain effect. Whilst this is a standard rule for assassins, they have the option to instead use a 'toxin'. That the chosen toxin replaces the poison makes sense therefore because the assassin has the option of replacing it or not.

Shadowblade however does not have this option, but yet he still has both Poisoned Attacks and Dark Venom in his rules list. If the Dark Venom replaced his Poisoned Attacks, then there would be no need to include the latter rule in his profile, as it is only included in the normal assassin's profile because you have the choice as to which you take.

Therefore it seems logical that Shadowblade has both the Poisoned Attacks and Dark Venom rule, or at least uses the prior under normal combat circumstances and the latter in a challenge.

Actually, there is no reason why Poison and Toxins could not both be used in reality as they are not the same thing.

I will ask GW about this, but I see there being a potential loophole here otherwise. I know which way I would prefer it ;-)

Right Hand Of Khaine


Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:56 pm
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Calisson wrote:
Lokir Fellheartagainst skirmishers already discussed:
RAW single-charge on skirmishers: see p.67 of RB.
Lokhir comes in contact with the closest skirmisher, who is aligned base to base on Lokhir.
Two more skirmisher make the front row against Lokhir, because of the principle that as many as possible should be involved in the combat (only 3 of them can be in contact, one is base contact, two are corner contacts). No more skirmisher can be brought in the first line, so remaining skirmishers are set in following ranks. If the unit was made of 10 skirmishers, the result is 4 ranks, the last one being incomplete.
Then Lokhir attacks, with 4 additional attacks!
If less than 3 skirmishers are killed, they can strike back.
If 3 skirmisher are killed, no one strikes back, they have no rank BONUS (as skirmisher), they still get +1 for being more numerous, they lost by 2!


This is gonna be amazing against beast herds. 30+ models, 1-2 characters in the front rank plus whatever command will fit. Beastmen have to rank up 4 wide unless they can go bigger, so that's 7 ranks of 4 + 1 incomplete for 8 ranks. This gives Fellheart 11 St4 Hatred attacks re-rolling to wound!! WOW!! My new best friend.

FG


Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:22 am
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1.Elite Troops rule for blackguard? this won't stack with hatred, right?

I believe he means can you re roll the re roll for hatred. Which is a no as you cant re roll a re roll.

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Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:09 am
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