MartialArtist wrote:I know Daemonettes were different to elves, but just wanted in my chart to sort of emphasize that on the scale of Slaanesh, elves and devoted will always be less than Daemonettes, who are actually manifestations of Slaanesh himself (I think) as no elf can ever BE a part of slaanesh.
Ok, just wanted to sort this one out. BTW any elf (or even human) follower can achieve being part of Slaanesh... I'm just not sure if having ones soul sucked and destroyed to fuel Chaos god's power is the way they want it... well, most of them will get it anyway.
MartialArtist wrote:Marks, hmmmm, yeeeeeah, uhhhh, never really been sold on marked DE, though I suppose if you make it mostly a mental thing than its probably fine. Would marked DE lose Eternal Hatred (by GW rules and/or and by ours)
Very true about the magic banners. That might be the tipping point for me.
by all earlier GW rules they should keep EH:
- CoK keep their EH and stupidity when ItP
- Witch Elves keep EH when frenzied
- 6th ed Marked units in CoS kept Hates High Elves rule
Also, would MoS remove EH, we again would have an issue of bonus that actually makes unit worse (as EH>ItP), so I believe they should keep it.
Anointed Magic
MartialArtist wrote:"BTW being max Lvl 2 he'll probabely do that with magic missiles rather than Black Horrors. " (sorry I don't use the quote thing, but I like to use quick reply so I can always refer back to the main forum).
Depends on whether he gets Druchii Sorcery or not....
Which leads to the debate: Anointed do/don't get PoD and/or Druchii Sorcery. I really want to ensure that the Sorcs stay the main spellcasters of the army, even if there are so many other options for magic, so maybe if the Anointed loses one or both of the uniquely DE magic abilities (as he hasn't spent whole life learning magic) than that would limit him a bit.
I do believe he should keep both - 1Lvl Sorceress has both and hardly spent whole life learning - even if she would, what would be just a small percent of Anointed life, as fluffwise they were born even before Dark Elves existed as Dark Elves and were one of the first to use Dark Magic. So from background point of view it's hard not to let him have DS and PoD.
As for Sorceresses being main spellcasters, that's already so in 2000 pts (1 Sorceress, max 1 Anointed, if you want more 2lvl wizards the only choice is another sorceress) and smaller armies (Sorceress is the only wizard option).
So the only problem would be 3000+ armies that go low on magic ('medium magic' and 'magic heavy' armies are no problem, as all other options than Sorceress are limited in numbers).
I believe that's a small issue, especially as on one hand even such army can be explained fluff-wise (as in: in this case Cult's Sorceresses decided to keep political leadership and let the other do the fighting and life-risking) and on the other, playing big battles many Army Books allow for 'strange' army composition.
Unit limits
MartialArtist wrote:I am with you on the Daemonic units being less than mortal units, but also still think there should be a mandatory Devoted for the army, as they were in the original and are basically the fundamental cultists. So maybe both unit of Devoted for every 3 required core and Cult player may never have more units(/characters?) with the "Daemonic" rule than units(/characters?) with "Mark Of Slaanesh"?
A couple of thoughts:
- Personally I dislike mandatory choices, but that's just my thing.
- Balance-wise I see no problem with proposed restriction on Devoted: they're a good choice, so would expect most players to take at least that one unit (in 2000-5,999 battles), even if not mandatory.
- also Balance-wise not taking Devoted doesn't hurt army balance.
- from rule economics PoV - with all the unit choice and unaviodable mix of army rules I'd say 'the less rules, the better'. Still, that would be just one more sentence.
So generally rule-wise it works well both ways. The key point for me would be the fluff PoV.
My opinion - as written before - is that there's a place for 2000+ army without them. (unlike CoS army without Sorcesses). After all not every army must include 'inner circle' cultist. Some can be forces where there are only dispendable units (like initates to the Cult, DE Warriors not of the Cult and Marauders) - especially if the Sorceress-general expects most of the army to die in order to achieve victory.
+1 was needed in 6th ed list IMO as otherwise the army could easily end up as single mandatory Sorceress in a Chaos Mortal/Daemons force bolstered by Scouting (2 units of Shades fill the core-minimum quite easily and also give Chaos something it lacks). With all the other restrictions we've put I don't think there is such a risk now.
Mounts
MartialArtist wrote:I always had in mind that I would be able to model my Anointed on the awesome boobworm snake thing, and he should have either a "Serpent Of Slaanesh" or "Daemonic Mount" option. I also invented a special character based on this which I might post later..
Great. I've given some thought to SC on general level (what types, how many, which existing characters fit), but very little on concrete new characters, so interesting ideas are needed. Will try to post those general ideas later today or tommorow as a framework for new SC.
MartialArtist wrote:Not sure now what you think the Anointed's mount options should be.
I thought
Chaos Steed
Daemonic Mount
Originaly also had Steed of Slaanesh (now in 1W form, still fits I think), Cold One (now gone) and Dark Steed (fluff-wise fits, and needed to allow him keep up with DR unit if he joins one - SoS is still quite costy)
Binding
MartialArtist wrote:I was hoping that the Daemons would fall apart pretty quickly if without binders, but I suppose a similar (but less likely to COMPLETELY restrict) effect is fine if they stay Ld 7 but DO have instability test each turn if outside of range.
Ok, as said, I'll give it a try on friday (2000 pts against WE). BTW do we have anyone else interested in playtesting?
Other stuff
MartialArtist wrote:Are shades making it into our list? Just a little confused about this. And same with Slaaneshi Cold Ones Knights? They were originally in but they seem to sort of have been forgotten...
Shades - definitly; SCOK - I'd put them in too.
Currently I'd see the list as:
(leaving out most options, point cost and general army rules, as I have to go in a moment... will try to post full updated version later... together with SC stuff and ideas on Chaos Gifts... whew, this project is indeed time-consuming )
daemonic - there may not be more of these units in total than other units
warband - can only be included if Anointed is present
CHARACTERS
LORDS
Keeper of the Secrets (takes Lord+Hero choice)
Supreme Sorceress (may be marked)
Anointed (marked)
HEROES
Master (may be marked, if so, can be BSB)
Sorceress (may be marked)
Daemonic Herald (no more Heralds than Lord choices allowed)
Marauder Warlord (marked, no more MW than Lord choices allowed)
UNITS
CORE
DE Warriors (may be marked)
DE Crossbowmen (may be marked)
Devoted (marked)
Marauders (may be marked)
Mounted Marauders (may be marked)
Daemonettes (daemonic)
Furies (daemonic, do not count toward core minimum)
SPECIAL
Shades (may be marked)
Dark Riders (may be marked)
Slaneshii Cold One Knights (marked)
Seekers of Slaanesh (daemonic)
Warriors of Slaanesh (marked, warband)
RARE
Reaper Bolt Thrower (may be marked)
Altar of Slaanesh (marked)
Fiend of Slaanesh (daemonic)
Knights of Slaanesh (marked, warband, 1 unit per Anointed)
Spawn of Slaanesh (warband)
Looking at it now I wonder if Furies shouldn't go to special after all - we plenty of other core choices, but as many Special as Rare, which seem wrong to me.