Druchii.net

It seems that the coming Dwarfs will get a fluffy rule with hatred:


I was wondering if this could help solving the uncertainty about our own hatred (HE),
for which some say it is the whole HE AB,
and some say it is only the High Elves among them (HE AB minus dragons, phenixes & eagles, plus HE mercenaries).

Thoughts?

Difficult to say. The dwarf rules you posted states that "...have hatred against all models in the enemy army", not anything with hatred (race).

However, high elves arguing that we dont get hatred vs eagles, phoenixes etc are kind of just trying to edge out an advantage with no argumentation. Is it a high elf phoenix? If yes, we get rerolls. If no, they cant include it in their bloody army. Thats the way I see it, when dark elves play vs high elves, all models with hatred (high elves) play with the hatred special rule for the entire game. Regardless of whether they are beating an eagle trying to protect the pesky dark elves, or the dragon carrying their hated kin into battle. Just my 10 cents.

But damn, the dwarf rule seems "random". Either you get hatred vs the general / characters, which is mediocre at best. Or you get all-round hatred (or, at least on the models with grudge rule, dont know how many models will have this rule obviously). Army-wide hatred 1/3 of the games is a little whacky, cos either it means dwarves STOMP their opponents 1/3 of the time, and the other 2/3 its an even game, or it means its an even game 1/3 of the time, and the other 2/3 of the time the dwarves cant fight in melee...

I think it's a very fun, fluff rule. It's focused around making the random engagement more fun, not point precision performance. I doubt it will make or break the battle either way.

I see it as another rule on the same line as Martial Prowess, Murderous Prowess etc. I think every army is going to get one or two special rules like this as a flavour/style token.

Thraundil wrote:high elves arguing that we dont get hatred vs eagles, phoenixes etc are kind of just trying to edge out an advantage with no argumentation.

I would not accuse HE players to do that!
Actually, on Ulthuan, the consensus seems to be reversely that we hate the whole HE AB entries, regardless of species.
Actually, that was me who was arguing that we should not claim for an advantage when it is not clear that we deserve it.
But the Dw AB seems to help to clarify that, and after all, our hatred (HE) could mean indeed hatred (HE AB).

If hatred (X) was to be understood as X to be a species, not an AB, then Dwarfs hating O&G would exclude snortlings and trolls.
But would a Dwarf player facing an O&G army roll to see whether his army hates snortlings (1 roll) and trolls (1 other roll)? I doubt that anyone would play that way.
Hence, I am now inclined to go along the majority trend that hatred (X) means hatred (X army book entries).

Note that comparing with Goblins' fear of Elves, I will still consider that it would be Elves as a species, not the whole 3 army books.

It would make sense, otherwise they would have a 1/3 chance to have better hatred vs. other armies than they have permanently against O&G and Skaven.

Interesting new rule. A bit hit and miss but fluffy.

The new quote from the same rule in the White Dwarf is:
"Ancestral Grudge: Dwarfs always have the Hatred (Orcs & Goblins) and Hatred (Skaven) special rules - this means any unit taken from Warhammer: Orcs & Goblins or Skaven. ... <some additional stuff>"

That settles it, I think?

Daeron wrote:The new quote from the same rule in the White Dwarf is:
"Ancestral Grudge: Dwarfs always have the Hatred (Orcs & Goblins) and Hatred (Skaven) special rules - this means any unit taken from Warhammer: Orcs & Goblins or Skaven. ... <some additional stuff>"

That settles it, I think?

Bam!

I updated the D.net FAQ with that.