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Shrine/COB and stomp/breath in CC 
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Setomidor beat me to it. It's not in the rulebook but in the FAQ on page 7. Full text of the relevant FAQ is as follows:

Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks? (p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed as a shooting attack.

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Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:15 pm
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Dyvim tvar wrote:
Setomidor beat me to it. It's not in the rulebook but in the FAQ on page 7. Full text of the relevant FAQ is as follows:

Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks? (p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed as a shooting attack.



Perfect! Thanks. Knew I saw it somewhere. You would think it would have been in the FAQ under page 76 that covers stomps. :roll: I can see scenarios when your opponent stomps and you 'choose' to put it on your 1+ armor save character.


Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:19 pm
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Corsair
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@ Setomidor & Dyvim tvar
Thank you for pointing at the rule that I skipped.
Wondering how come I missed it, I found that the full quote ended with "(p.42)".
So, I went to read p.42, and found that it deals with... rolling "to wound" for shooting attacks. :?
No wonder why I missed it. The only reason it is there is because the same page tells what is an unusual attack (and even that helps not much).


The only really important part of the FAQ are the words "distributed as a shooting attack." But what means distributed?

In the whole shooting attack chapter, there is no mention about distribution that I can find.
Distributing shooting attacks is found only p.71 about impact hits, said to be "distributed" as shooting attacks. They say see p.42 (which helps not) and p.96.
p.96 deals with characters. Let's understand that the whole chapter about characters must be read.
Finally, p.99, there are two paragraphs about shooting.
It seems that we have to apply the paragraph about "normal shooting attacks, i.e. those which use BS" rather than the next paragraph about "Unusual shooting attacks", "that do not use the normal shooting rules".

Go wonder! :o_O:
I will not edit my posts above immediately, that will wait tomorrow.

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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:17 pm
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Dragon Lord
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On this part I need to disagree with you Calisson.

Stomps let you attack the unit, which the shrine/character is a part of. It does not allow you to pick either the character or the shrine or the unit. You attack the unit as a whole and when character (shrine) is ineligible to be stomped, any excess wounds are lost (say 3 models + character on a horse get stomped, 4 hits, 4 wounds, 3 infantry die, the 4th wound doesn't carry over onto the character as he's mounted). Using your interpretation it would be possible to stomp an infantry character inside the infantry unit and put all hits on the character alone.

It is the same with breath weapons. They target the unit as a whole, not its specific parts.

This doesn't change the fact that a character joining a unit doesn't change the unit's troop type, hence it's still eligible to be stomped.

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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:45 am
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Corsair
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Do we now agree on the following?


- When either Shrine, COB + DH, or lone COB (-DH- :killed:) are inside a R&F unit, that makes a combined unit as per p.99, when the chariot joins the unit and when it leaves; for practical considerations, together they should be considered to remain a combined unit in-between (the alternative would be to consider that they remain independant despite being together, but when examined, it creates too many problems).

- the type of the combined unit is "unique"; however, its components retain their troop type as far as stomping is concerned (because p.99 says CC is an exception to being combined), i.e. a R&F infantry can be stomped even if a shrine has joined it.

- spells & impact hits (p.42), breath attacks in CC & stomp (FAQ p.42) are all unusual attacks distributed as a shooting attack.
They are not template attacks, so the relevant paragraph p.99 to apply is "Shooting", and these attacks cannot hit a character in a combined unit if there are five or more R&F, and if less than 5 R&F, the controlling player allocates.

-=-=-

Note that in case of stomping, the issue can be confusing:
when determining whether the infantry inside the combined unit can be targeted, the answer is yes because CC is an exception to being combined;
when allocating the hits, the distribution is made nevertheless as if it was a combined unit.

The weird consequence is illustrated when a unit of R&F infantry with shrine is charged by a unit of Empire's Demigryph Knights.
There could be one demigryph in contact with only the shrine. Nevertheless, its stomp would be allocated to infantry...

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Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:54 am
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Dragon Lord
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Just one thing. Characters joining units don't alter the unit's troop type. In other words:
Shrine/cob with or without hag, joining units don't alter the unit's troop type.

There is nothing in the rules of Will of the Gods that says it does.

Treat them as characters in units in all respects regarding their interaction with units and the whole issue becomes much simpler.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:28 pm
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