ASF and Thunderstomp

[Akholrak]

Hi everyone. As the title says, if a Monster is bestowed the ASF special rule, say as a result of casting Birona's on it, would it's Thunderstomp attack be resolved at its initiative value or would it still be resolved with ASL? Thanks in advance, and apologies if this has been discussed before.

[direweasel]

Yes, ASF and ASL cancel each other out, so if you give a monster with Thunderstomp ASF, I would rule that his stomping would occur in Initiative order.

[Calisson]

Not necessarily.
Special attacks (including stomp) never benefit from any special rule, so they don't get ASF, in the same way that they don't get poison.
Sorry I don't have a copp of BRB at hand at the moment, I cannot quote.

[Thraundil]

"A Stomp has the Always Strikes Last special rule, and inflicts 1 automatic hit, at the model's Strength, on one enemy infantry, war beasts or swarm unit in base contact with the model."

So yeah. Cast Bironas timewarp on the unit in question, and I would rule that its stomps occur at initiative order. Because it makes the stomp "in addition to its other close combat attacks", implying that the stomp is indeed a close combat attack.

To 'counter' the above argument about special attacks and ASF/ASL... If a special attack never benefits from special rules, then why does it have the ASL special rule? The rule should then have read "A stomp always occurs after all other close combat attacks from either side are resolved".

RAW, I see no issue with giving a stomp ASF to make it strike on initiative.

[Dalamar]

There's no issue, except it's against the rules. Stomps never benefit from *other* special rules.

In other words they do benefit from special rules that are specifically stated in the stomp rules. ASL is one of them and there might be some other stomps.

BRB FAQ page 4
Q: Do Stomp or Thunderstomp hits benefit from any other special rules, equipment or magic items of the model that inflicts the hits? (p76)
A: No.

[Akholrak]

Thanks for the input guys!

@Dalamar
Thanks for providing the FAQ to answer my question. Greatly appreciated.

[Scyloc]

Dalamar it Can be argued that The FAQ you qouted does not apply. The question is, does Magic spells affect stomps? And in most cases, they do.
Personally i think it is a grey area.

[Dalamar]

Spells grantking special rules grant special rules. Those still don't affect stomps regardless of source.

Now wildform for example will make stomps +1S because +1S is not a special rule, and in this case it's not granted by equipment or magic item.