Couple of questions on Shadowblade

[Lostshadow]

Ok here goes:

Characters cannot join war machines, however shafowblade's rules say any unit (other than harpies)

So could he be revealed in war machine crew?
Normally no, but as we know the army book precedes over the main rule book so interpret this as a yes, but can it be done?


Onto his poison, he has more than one poison, is he limited to using one at a time or can he benefit from all three? Example, use both killing blow and +1 to wound?

[Jolemai]

I may be wrong but Assassins can only be hidden in units of Infantry and war machines are not infantry.

[Haagrum]

1. The Hidden rule allows Assassins to be concealed in any Dark Elf infantry unit other than Harpies. War machines are not infantry. Shadowblade can't hide in them, because he uses the Hidden rule (with a specific amendment concerning changing his location at the start of any Movement or Close Combat phase).

2. He uses them all at once, so he has +1 to Wound, Killing Blow, gives -1 LD per Wound taken to enemy characters, AND still gets Poisoned Attacks.

[Lostshadow]

Ok thanks


I have another question that is going to cause me problems

Shadowblade is considered hidden and the rules say that "he doesn't actually move, but rather is assumed to have always been in that unit as his disguise is that good"

So what happens if :

Unit A is in combat and being slaughtered and shadowblade is still hidden and I want to save him, can he "move" to another unit ? If so can that unit be engaged in combat as he's "not joining the unit" but has "been there all along"

How would this work? If at all?
He's not following the rules for a character joining the unit, so although I think people will see this as rule bending

[Jolemai]

If your unit gets annihilated before Shadowblade (or any Assassin) is revealed, then he is lost. I believe it says that already. Changing your mind what unit he is in during the game will be seen by many as cheating (which is fine for Dark Elves, but not for us humans who want to play people again).

[Lostshadow]

He is ALLOWED to change units, it isn't cheating

Shadowblade can change units in the movement phase and you have to keep a note and reveal it to your opponent when he is revealed, it's NOT cheating

All I'm asking is if he can still move when engaged in combat as he isn't technically leaving, in the same way must and shadows isn't technically movement

[Amboadine]

He is ALLOWED to change units, it isn't cheating

Shadowblade can change units in the movement phase and you have to keep a note and reveal it to your opponent when he is revealed, it's NOT cheating

Do you have the references to back up your argument? I don't have any books with me currently, but personally I was under the impression you make a note at the start of the game and if you lose the unit he was in, then tough.

[Lostshadow]

It's under the rules for Shadowblade


I don't know the page reference off the top of my head

Normal assassins yes, but Shadowblade can switch units, he has different rules

Yes if the unit he is with is destroyed he is lost, that's not what I'm asking


So let's say he's hidden in a unit of 5 remaining black guard and they WILL DIE in combat later that turn but are NOT yet dead
If he is hidden there, can he then pop to another BEFORE it's destroyed ?

BEFORE dead but ENgAGEd and HIDDEN

[Searinox Nagharha]

Thats for normal Assassins. Shadowblade on the other hand is so awesome hes everywhere, yet nowhere

A bit more serious; it does say that you can change his location in the movement phase.

[Lostshadow]

Ok ok I see where the confusion is coming from so allow me to put forward this scenario:

Shadowblade starts the game hidden in 20 black guard, they take a load of casualties from shooting and have 5 models remaining
Next a dragon overruns on the enemy turn into the black guards flank with only 1 model in base contact
So it's looks like the black guard are gonna die and so Shadowblade will be lost

So in my movement phase, Shadowblade would be allowed to move to another unit as he hasn't been revealed

So can he abandon the black guard to their fate and "move" to another unit, say a unit of witch elves fighting on the far flank

He's technically not on the battlefield, not is he actually leaving or joining a unit as his rules say he isn't actually there until revealed and is assumed to have been at the revealed unit all along
So is he breaking the rules by changing from a unit engaged in close combat? As he isn't actually there, not following the normal rules

I just feel most opponents would argue against this as all I have to say is that he's changing units, not where (except I would record on which turn and unit he was in, so if there's any dispute they can look back and say "hey ok so he was / wasn't in that unit that was destroyed")

And out of good sportsmanship I would say:
"Ok so Shadowblade is with those black guard, but can move units(show rules for Shadowblade Ect) "

and say he's now in a different unit

[Thraundil]

The rules for shadowblade explicitly states that:

"He can change which unit he is hiding in at the start of any movement or close combat phase."

So in the scenario you describe: YES, he can chance place in your movement phase before the close combat phase starts, and the black guard die (although the first turn the black guard champion should obviously challenge the dragon rider!!)

Another scenario. A guy declares a charge that requires a natural dice roll of 12 on those 5 remaining black guard. He actually makes it in, and you fear shadowblade might die. No problem - he can jump at the start of ANY close combat phase, so he just hops to another unit. So long as you have not yet revealed him, anything goes. Basically.

But let me now ask a question of you now that I have answered yours. Why do you use shadowblade? He has the same cost as a fully tooled dreadlord, but since he basically comes with one good close combat round and then thats it, I sort of anticipate that he might not make his points back... If you somehow get frenzy on him, he's looking at 5 attacks. Thats maybe 4 wounds if he use his potion, which - considering most characters run a 4+ ward save - is max 2 wounds inflicted. Then he very likely dies. Am I missing something?

[Haagrum]

Why do you use shadowblade? He has the same cost as a fully tooled dreadlord, but since he basically comes with one good close combat round and then thats it, I sort of anticipate that he might not make his points back... If you somehow get frenzy on him, he's looking at 5 attacks. Thats maybe 4 wounds if he use his potion, which - considering most characters run a 4+ ward save - is max 2 wounds inflicted. Then he very likely dies. Am I missing something?

Well, he does have Killing Blow... not that you can rely on it, of course, but if you roll one 6 to wound (which is more likely than not), that 4+ ward becomes a win-big-or-lose-big proposition.

[Lostshadow]

That's true but Shadowblade has a distinct advantage in that he can be anywhere

Monster down to 2-3 wounds but eating your infantry, Shadowblade warps in, 4 strength 8 hits and saves the day

I also know that a lot of people I play against tool their BSBs up above 245pts (including the 100pts for killing a bsb) but their ward 4+ goes to a lord, so at the opportune moment when I know I'm winning combat but that DAMM bsb keeps holding them I can jump in, strike and take him out, if Shadowblade dies, I've at least earned his points back, if not that's just a bonus
But eiether way, if I'm confidant I'll win the combat but think the bsb re roll will hold, taking him out means the whole unit will likely break

The main thing about shadowblade is his ability to almost 100% gurrantee he will be where you want him, and no one else can appear in the unit of shades your enemy ignored that "foolishly" charged his rank and file unit

But even if he doesn't earn back his points, he can take out a target that will start making the Enemy army crumble over time

And he's fun to use,

Basically I like the opponents face when Shadowblade appears and cuts down a vital part of his plan