Question: Supreme Spellshield

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Thraundil
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Question: Supreme Spellshield

Post by Thraundil »

Hey guys!
As I may be using malekith in a tournament soon, I have a couple of questions regarding the supreme spellshield. Its rules state, amongst others, that "If malekith is ever the target of an enemy spell that he succesfully dispels, the caster's unit immediately suffers D6 magical S6 hits."

So what classifies malith as "the target of an enemy spell", if we assume that I put malekith in a unit.

Hexes: a unit containing a character is a combined, single unit. As such the hex also hits malekith, and I'd argue that dispelling it with malekith would proc the supreme spellshield effect. Yes/No?

Magic missiles: typically hits rank-and-file members of the unit. But since its cast on the "unit", and the entire unit is one combined entity, I'd say malekith is among the targeted? Yes/no on this ruling?

Direct damage: snipes target on malekith: Procs the effect. Snipse target on someone else in malekiths unit: does NOT proc the effect. unit-wide effects (like everyone takes S test or dies): procs the effect. Templates that hit the unit, but does not overlap malekith? What is the ruling here?

Vortexes: difficult ruling. A vortex does not have a target, does it?



So long story short, I am trying to figure out what constitutes a character in a unit of being "the target of an enemy spell".
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
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Haagrum
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Re: Question: Supreme Spellshield

Post by Haagrum »

I'd agree with your conclusions in relation to hexes, direct damage causing X hits/hitting every model in the unit, snipes, and magic missiles. AOE hex spells (i.e. affecting every unit within X inches) would target Malekith's unit.

Magical vortex spells do not have targets as such (BRB, p31), so the Supreme Spellshield would not trigger if Malekith dispelled one. Odd spells such as Comet of Casandora or Raise Dead wouldn't be affected, since they have no target other than a point on the ground.

In relation to direct damage spells using templates - this is a bit tricky and I don't see an easy answer. You have to choose the target for a spell when it is being cast, even if the spell subsequently scatters off that target (e.g. Flame Storm, Soul Stealer). When characters join a unit, they're counted as being part of a single unit for all rules purposes (BRB, p99), other than the exceptions specifically listed on page 99 of the BRB.

I'll admit that I have no hard-and-fast rules statement for this conclusion, but I consider that a template would "target" Malekith's unit if it is placed so that it will hit that unit, assuming favourable rolling (i.e. rolling a Hit or staying on the initial target unit if the template scatters, or rolling a high enough distance to reach the unit for teardrop-template spells such as Pink Fire of Tzeentch). I come to this conclusion about "targeting" for teardrop-template spells which move a short distance on the basis that the Supreme Spellshield would otherwise not have a chance to operate against such spells unless they were touching the unit before the dice are rolled for moving the template. Such a conclusion would allow these spells to be aimed at Malekith's unit while dodging the Supreme Spellshield's effects in a way that other direct damage spells cannot.

Similarly, I consider that a spell would not "target" Malekith's unit if the initial position of the template would not cause it to hit that unit, or (in the case of moving teardrop-template spells) were not in the potential range of the spell on its intended trajectory. The spell might scatter onto Malekith's unit after being successfully cast, but by then, the Supreme Spellshield will have missed its chance to trigger.

TL; DR - I believe the correct resolution is as follows:

1. Was the spell positioned or aimed to hit Malekith's unit (even if it might subsequently miss due to random dice rolls)? This is really a matter of fact, which shouldn't be hard to determine.

2. If the answer to #1 is "Yes", did Malekith dispel that spell? If this is also a "Yes", the Supreme Spellshield will trigger and cause hits on the caster.
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Thraundil
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Re: Question: Supreme Spellshield

Post by Thraundil »

Cheers. These where the answers I was hoping for, and my own interpretation as well. But since I obviously want it to work in as many instances as possible, I wanted a not-as-biased-as-the-guy-about-to-playtest-Malekith opinion on the matter ;)

Thanks!
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
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Olliewood
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Re: Question: Supreme Spellshield

Post by Olliewood »

What do you plan on running him in?
Cheers,
Oli
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