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Master Babel Fish
Master Babel Fish
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Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:42 pm
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i think we should do the following:

DarkAlliance: Petitions Forum
Me: Druchii Discussion
Thanee: Metallurgist's Army book
Metallurgist: Thanee's Thread
Langmann: everything/anything else you can find.

if you don't like this allocation, just say so and we'll se if/how we can change it.

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Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:33 am
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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Ok I'm on it. I'll start seriously browsing this weekend.


Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:37 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:54 pm
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Location: Brussels, Belgium
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Hi,

Kind of a shock to suddenly see my name as a moderator here!

So, if I get this straight, the people listed propose changes that someone else came up with, to get a grip on what's good and what isn't, right? I think it's a good idea to let me assess Thanee's stuff and him mine, though. We're sometimes at each other's throat, but we get along anyway, and he's got a good grip on game balance! :)

It's a good idea, although I think there needs to be more interaction. How do we do that? Also, who is the 'grand petitioner', having the final say in what will be in there?

By the way, thanks for including me, I appreciate it - I'm not quite an oldtimer on this forum after all.

Cheers,
-Metallurgist


Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:45 am
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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From an earlier conversation somewhere between steja and I, my understanding is we draw up a shortlist of what seems to be the most sensible, logical, whatever you want to call it, changes. Then we put it to a membership vote.

I suggest we produce lists for each category of unit, i.e. character / core / special etc and magic items. And maybe a fluff/special rule (like the torture thing) list too.

Doing it this way I believe is a good idea 'coz the membership can see what we are suggesting and see the direction this is going, yet still comment, but without clogging the core thread. So hopefully less confusion and diversion away from the aim of the petition.


Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:02 pm
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Dark Alliance wrote:
From an earlier conversation somewhere between steja and I, my understanding is we draw up a shortlist of what seems to be the most sensible, logical, whatever you want to call it, changes. Then we put it to a membership vote.

I suggest we produce lists for each category of unit, i.e. character / core / special etc and magic items. And maybe a fluff/special rule (like the torture thing) list too.

Doing it this way I believe is a good idea 'coz the membership can see what we are suggesting and see the direction this is going, yet still comment, but without clogging the core thread. So hopefully less confusion and diversion away from the aim of the petition.


I agree with you there. These suggestions can be placed as a sticky poll in the discussion section. Then if lots of votes are obtained we have credibility when sending the petition.

As an aside, I think there will not be a rerelease of the DE book (if ever for 6th ed). Therefore improvements should be done, as steja suggested, with the core rules in mind.

If the petition does actually get read and used by GW (oh how lucky it would be) it should be presented in a manner that could be easily released in WD or Annual books, possibly as stickies to place over sections in our army book like the corrections already released. Some examples of how it could be done (NOT SET IN STONE EXAMPLES) are below:

Four examples: GW could write a fluffy peice about how DE lords preparing invasion armies of ulthuan etc. in retribution, and thus calling up all cityguard reserves for invasion uses. Therefore cityguard are now regular core, and rules available in chronicles. No need to adjust rules/models. I think Gav is warming up to cityguard and it might actually get accepted as regular core, something every DE player here wants except one crazy person.

Another example: Malekith is releasing Blackguard from their watch duties for the invasion, thus blackguard are now 15/14 points. Plus an ancient banner was found, created from the burned clothes of the elf nobles opposed to Malekith's entrance of the pheonix fire, which inspires eternal hatred in the unit carrying it, 75 points. Unit gets hatred every round of combat. OR Blackguard, so enraged by recent elven invasion, now hate everyone all the time, eternal hatred. blah blah blah...

Example of magic items additions: Ancient long sword of power discovered, grants user +2 S. (one handed sword +2 S 40 points). OR Morathi has granted use of some of her prized magical possesions to all DE sorcerors for the upcoming campaigns. New Enchanted Item: ring of cold : bound spell 5+ casts magic missile 18" does 1d6 S3 hits, in addition unit that takes one wound is unable to fire during shooting phase (recognize that spell?).

Example of rules clarification: Word of Pain is useable on unit in combat.

Easy to do, and present as a little DE writeup in WD that could fix a lot of our problems. I think GW is considering redoing our army book about as much as I am considering buying a cheezy stunty army, NOT.

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Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:13 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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I agree with Langman here. I like the idea very much. I think that the vast majority of people agree that either:

1. The DE book does not need to be completely re-written but would like more fluff

or

2. They accept that there is no way GW will ever re - write the DE book, so are happy to accept some kind of amendment(s) via WD or the Annual.

With this is mind, I believe that the primary goal of "The Grand Petition" should be the augmenting of amendments, and that we should all work towards that goal from the start.


Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:25 am
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Rending Star
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Metallurgist wrote:
I think it's a good idea to let me assess Thanee's stuff and him mine, though. We're sometimes at each other's throat, but we get along anyway, and he's got a good grip on game balance! :)


I'll slit your... you... err... what were you talking about? :roll:

Yep, I think this sounds quite good as far as I can see (which is not very far right now, I must admit - tiiiired).

Bye
Thanee


Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:03 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:54 pm
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Location: Brussels, Belgium
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I can agree about the amendments part. We could make the unused units viable by simple changes, and that's that. Even though the chances of it ever happening are still very slim, the likeliness would be a lot higher than if we proposed my list. I do realise that, don't forget I didn't write the list with a petition in mind. I only wanted a cooler list to play with, and since I knew my opponents wouldn't mind, why not do it myself?

I'll get to it this weekend.

Cheers,
-Metallurgist


Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:40 am
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Rending Star
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Well, I tried to cover pretty much all the useless choices in our list (and a few ones, which seemed to not live up to the fluff) with my changes list, which is quite a few! ;)

Bye
Thanee


Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:04 am
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Master Babel Fish
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yes, but many of your changes are so radical that they'll never allow them - we have to make simple yet effective ones.

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Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:05 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Well, I agree with Langmann's view and that format would allow the revision to seem reasonable instead of a hurried errata.

With this in mind, I encourage us to all try and get a decent petition ready soon so it can be sent to GW for them to have a look at. I don't doubt at all the GW would consider these changes and would include them if at all possible.

Quote:
yes, but many of your changes are so radical that they'll never allow them - we have to make simple yet effective ones.


Yes, I think we shouldnt expect TOTALLY new rules to be incuded, in such a "white dwarf campaign" sort of revision.

The issue of executioners springs to mind. I think heavy armour and maybe a Killing Blow improvment to 5+ is ALL we can get. The heavy armour proposal is a must, so the KB one would just be a heatful suggestion.

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Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:08 am
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