An analysis of Metallurgist's alternate army book, by Thanee

[Thanee]

Coming soon...

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Yeah, I know, that was mean...

[Metallurgist]

You evil, evil man...

-Metallurgist

[Langmann]

Ha HA

[Thanee]

Assassin:
· If not deployed hidden, the assassin can scout. This means he can join a unit shades and be deployed with them at the same time.
· An assassin must always attack the enemy model with highest leadership. If there are multiple models with highest leadership, the assassin can choose which single model he will attack. Characters have priority to rank and file regardless of leadership value. The assassin can and must move to base contact with the appropriate model even in the close combat phase.

Scouting: Assassins definitely should have an option to scout, either included in their rules or as a skill bought from the Temple for 25 pts.

The target priority rules will enforce the Assassin to be used against characters (or units not including characters), but I feel they will limit the Assassin quite a bit.

A solution, which makes the Assassin worthwhile to fight against opposing characters but does not force him to take on a character (which can be a significant disadvantage) would be better, altho I agree with the basic idea, that the Assassin should be a character killer and not primarily a rank-and-file killer. One key element here is Killing Blow, which should be useable and combineable with other options to a degree, that the Assassin becomes a real threat not a gamble.

Beastmaster:
· Any beasts ridden by or in the same unit as a beastmaster may re-roll their rolls to hit in the first round of combat. This includes dark steeds, cold ones, dark pegasi, manticores and war hydras.
· Any monster reaction tests within 12" of a beastmaster and failed cold one stupidity tests within 6" of a beastmaster may be re-rolled.

Yes, the Beastmaster definitely needs to have more interaction with beasts as part of his rules!

Burning Hatred:
· All Dark Elves hate High Elves
· Burning Hatred even affects models that are immune to psychology.
· Burning Hatred does not affect any mounts or the war hydra.

This mostly affects Witch Elves, and I agree, that they should have the Hatred special rules even while Frenzy.

Cauldron, Keepers of the:
· The guardians and the Hag Queen have magic resistance (1) and are unbreakable.
· The guardians and the Hag Queen must remain within 2" of the Cauldron; the frenzy ability does not force them to charge.
· If the Keepers of the Cauldron are killed, the Cauldron is considered destroyed.

Cauldron of Blood:
· The Cauldron of Blood follows the rules for war machines when charged or shot at and when calculating unit strength.
· The Cauldron itself cannot be attacked or be destroyed by shooting.
· All witch elves on the battlefield gain a 6+ ward save and may re-roll their rolls to wound. If a unit of witch elves is broken in combat, it loses all the benefits from the Cauldron of Blood.

Yes, the Cauldron definitely needs to be more survivable!

I don't think it's a good idea to change its effect, tho.

Controlled:
· Only beastmasters may join a hydra unit. A beastmaster that joined a hydra unit counts as a controlling model.
· Controlling models cannot be hit by shooting if they are not in line of sight of the shooting models. When in line of sight, hits are randomized between hydra and controllers following the rules for shooting at a war machine.
· If the hydra uses its breath attack in close combat, controlling models cannot be hit by it.

Yes, Beastmasters should become controlling models, if joining a War Hydra unit.

I'm not sure about the randomization, as it is against the updated monster handler rules printed in WD.

If the Hydra will be able to use her breath weapon in close combat, the last rule makes sense (the Hydra herself should also not be hit by her own attack).

Eternal Hatred:
· A model with Eternal Hatred follows the rules for hatred.
· A model with Eternal Hatred can even re-roll missed attacks after the first round of combat.

Definitely an option for Black Guard.

Fiery Breath:
· Strength 3 flaming breath weapon.
· When the hydra breathes fire, the broad end of the flame template is placed next to the hydra instead of the narrow end.
· When in close combat, the hydra can choose to breathe fire instead of attacking normally.

Sounds fair, altho I'm not sure, if this will make the breath weapon really more useful, since the Hydra's attacks ain't bad either. Of course it would also make the Spellbreaker Hydra better, since she does not have a weaker breath weapon, but weaker statline.

But it's definitely an option to be considered.

Dark Elf Titles

Hag Graef Cavern Master 15 pts
Tower Warden of Ghrond 20 pts
Shadow Brotherhood Elder 25 pts
Naggaroth Captain only
Favoured Bride of Khaine 30 pts
High Executioner 30 pts
Captain of the Black Guard 40 pts
Supreme Sorceress of the Dark Convent 45 pts

Something like this would be a nice way to create themed armies without the need for an appendix list. Definitely something worth to be considered.

Dark Sword 15 pts
· The Dark Sword's wielder may re-roll any failed rolls to wound once.

Heartseeker 15 pts
· Heartseeker's wielder may re-roll any missed attacks.

Both seem too cheap. Should be 20 and 25 points respectively, I think.

Whip of Dominion 20 pts
Beastmaster only
· Monster reaction tests within 24" and failed stupidity tests within 12" of a beastmaster carrying the Whip of Dominion may be re-rolled.

Some BM specific items would be good!

Chill Blade 20 pts
· A model hit by the Chill Blade loses half of its attacks, round up, during that combat round.

Interesting idea to make this weapon more useful.

Blade of Ruin 35 pts
· No armour saves are allowed for wounds caused by the Blade of Ruin.

Uhm... no!

Hydra Blade 50 pts
· The Hydra Blade confers 2 additional attacks on the character wielding it.

I don't have a problem with the d3 here, but this would be fine as well.

Gauntlet of Power 60 pts
· The Gauntlet of Power's wielder has S8 and strikes last.

Not a big change, therefore not necessary. Makes no difference usually. Strike last is still a big disadvantage, altho there is no argument, that this is the best weapon available to us!

Venom Sword 65 pts
· A model that loses a wound to the Venom Sword must roll equal to or under its Toughness on 2D6 or is automatically slain.

Yep, it seems to be too expensive at 75 pts.

Executioner's Axe 70 pts
High Executioner only
· The Executioner's Axe is a magical great axe.
· When rolling to wound in close combat and for armour save modifiers, the wielder's Strength counts as being double that of his target's Toughness.

Without striking last, this weapon would be quite nasty!

Armour of Darkness 25 pts
· The wearer of the Armour of Darkness has a 2+ armour save that cannot be improved.

Definitely! No Shield!!!

Armour of Eternal Servitude 60 pts
· The Armour of Eternal Servitude is a magical suit of heavy armour.
· The wearer gains Regeneration.

Still way too expensive.

Armour of Living Death 80 pts
· The Armour of Living Death is a magical suit of heavy armour.
· The wearer gains +1 Toughness and +1 Wound on his profile.

This onie is really hard to make right, but still seems too expensive to me.

Ring of Hotek 25 pts
· Any magic user attempting to cast a spell within 10" of the wearer of the Ring of Hotek will miscast on the roll of any double.

A better clarified version (i.e. move "attempting to cast a spell" behind "Ring of Hotek") would be good. Definitely needs a higher range.

Black Amulet 50 pts
· The bearer of the Black Amulet has a 5+ Ward save.
· If the bearer passes a Ward save from a wound suffered in close combat, the attacking model suffers a wound with no armour or Ward saves possible.

This is too much, for only 20 points on top of the Ward save you gain an extremely nasty attack! Definitely allow Ward saves against the rebounded wounds!

Crystal of Midnight 25 pts
Bound Spell, Power Level 4
One use only
· Nominate a wizard anywhere on the battlefield. The wizard will not be able to cast one randomly determined spell for the rest of the battle.

Yep, it's hard enough to be used as a bound spell, the additional Ld test is not necessary.

Ring of Darkness 35 pts
Bound Spell, Power Level 4
· Attacks in close combat require a 6 to hit the wearer of the Ring of Darkness.
· Remains in play.

A cost reduction seems like a good idea, or make the effect more reliable.

Soulstone 25 pts
· The bearer of the Soulstone is immune to the effects of her first Miscast.
· The Miscast spell still fails.

Why the cost increase?

Blood Banner 25 pts
Cold One Knights only
· A unit Cold One Knights carrying the Blood Banner ignores its first failed Stupidity test.

Yep! Not sure about the cost, tho, maybe 20 points is enough.

Standard of Slaughter 35 pts
· The unit carrying the Standard of Slaughter gains +2 to its Combat Resolution on the turn it charges.

Definitely have it work everytime. Not sure about the +2 instead of d3, tho, but that's a more general question about those random elements.

Banner of Murder 45 pts
· The Banner of Murder adds 2D3" to the charge move of the unit carrying it.

Again the randomization is cut down here, and again I'm not sure about it. I think the d6" is ok.

Hydra Banner 50 pts
· All models in the unit carrying the Hydra Banner gain +1 Attack on the turn they charged.
· Any mounts do not get this bonus.

This is something to think about, but it makes the banner much less powerful, altho a lot more useful in different units. I like the official banner better (altho a cost reduction to 75 would be ok), but this is something to be considered.

Dread Banner 75 pts
· The unit carrying the Dread Banner causes fear.

I really don't think this effect is worht 75 points. 50 points and the banner would be useful.

Banner of Nagarythe 120 pts
· The Banner of Nagarythe adds +1 Combat Resolution to all units within 6", and the unit carrying it is unbreakable.

The cost of 150 pts really seems quite steep.

Dark Venom 25 pts
· If the model using dark venom scores a 6 on its 'to hit' roll, either in close combat or shooting a repeater crossbow, the target is automatically wounded with no armour save possible. No roll to wound is made.

This effect seems too much to me.

Manbane 30 pts
· Models using manbane always count their strength as one higher than their target's toughness, unless their Strength would be higher than this, up to a maximum of 6.
· This modified strength is also used to calculate armour save modifiers.
· Repeater crossbow bolts coated with manbane count as Strength 4.

No need to change this.

Black Lotus 35 pts
· A model that suffered one or more unsaved wounds from a weapon or repeater crossbow bolt coated with Black Lotus will lose an additional wound, with no armour saves possible, at the start of his following turn.

Not sure about this one, I like the crippling effect of the official Black Lotus, altho it doesn't seem very useful.

Witch Brew 25 pts
Witch Elf Hag only
· Units in close combat with the Hag's unit cannot claim the +1 combat resolution bonus for outnumbering, flank and rear attacks or higher ground.
· The unit is still affected by Witch Brew if the Hag is slain.

Yep, this needs to be clarified.

Dance of Doom 30 pts
· The model has a 5+ ward save.

25 pts no more.

3) Word of Pain Difficulty 8+
Remains in Play
· Can be cast on a unit, which may be in close combat, within 24" and line of sight of the caster.
· All models in the affected unit have their weapon skill and ballistic skill reduced to 1.

Does it really need to be increased in complexity? The effect is still not THAT great.

A Dark Elf army can choose characters and units from either the Black Ark Raiding list or the Naggaroth list.

The distinction between different lists is a cool idea, but doesn't seem appropriate for the official book. Theme should be supported but not enforced and generally be left to the individual player IMHO.

Slave raid:
· Units of man-sized models that are run down are worth a number of Victory Points more equal to the number of models in that unit.

Nice idea, but not appropriate for the general list.

Beastmaster Pts/model: 40 pts

M6 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I6 A2 Ld8

Equipment: Whip (hand weapon)
Options:
· Additional hand weapon (+4 pts), spear (+4 pts)
· Light armour (+2 pts), sea dragon cloak (+6 pts)
· Dark steed (+12 pts), cold one (+18 pts), dark pegasus (+55 pts), manticore (+190 pts and one Hero slot), can ride in cold one chariot

Yes to M6, spear and light armour. No to sea dragon cloak and dark steed (;))!

Assassin Pts/model: 95 pts

M6 WS9 BS9 S4 T3 W2 I10 A3 Ld10

Equipment: Two hand weapons, throwing knives
Options:
· Repeater crossbow (+15 pts)
· Temple of Khaine items and/or skills up to 50 pts
Special Rules:
Burning Hatred; Killing Blow; Assassin

A completely redesigned Assassin. Only one ranged attack (RXB), no throwing knives. 15 points would be fair, considering the BS. With Killing Blow as standard, the cost should be higher.

Crossbowelves Pts/model: 12

Crossbowelf M5 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8
Sharpshooter M5 WS4 BS5 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8

Unit Size: 10+
Equipment: Hand weapon, repeater crossbow, light armour
Options:
· Upgrade one model to Musician (+5 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (+10 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Sharpshooter (+5 pts)

Yep, 12 points and +5 for BS champion, if the Warriors should be split into close combat and missile units. Note, that they cannot have shields here, they are a pure missile unit. I don't think the Warriors need to be changed that much, RXB for 5 pts would suffice, but it's worth to be considered.

Cold One Knights Pts/model: 28

Knight M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A1 Ld9
Dread Knight M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld9

Unit Size: 5+
Equipment: Hand weapon, lance, heavy armour, shield
Mounts: Cold ones
Options:
· Upgrade one model to Musician (+9 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (+18 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Dread Knight (+18 pts)
· May carry a magic standard worth up to 50 pts

One of the many options to make these guys more appropriate (+1 Ld).

Executioners Pts/model: 13

Executioner M5 WS5 BS4 S4 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8
Draich Master M5 WS5 BS4 S4 T3 W1 I5 A2 Ld8

Unit Size: 10+
Equipment: Hand weapon, great weapon, heavy armour
Options:
· Upgrade one model to Musician (+6 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (+12 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Sergeant (+12 pts)
· May carry a magic standard worth up to 50 pts

Heavy armour most definitely, yes!

With S4, I feel their hand weapons will be used a lot more. That's why I'm hesitant to give them S4.

City Guard Pts/model: 8

City Guard M5 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8
Sergeant M5 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A2 Ld8

Unit Size: 10+
Equipment: Hand weapon, spear, light armour
Options:
· Shield (+1 pt)
· Up to half of the models can carry a repeater crossbow (+5 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Musician (+5 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (+10 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Sergeant (+10 pts)
· One unit of City Guard in the army may carry a magic standard worth up to 50 pts
Special Rules: Burning Hatred; Mixed Formation

Only 9 points for fully equipped Spearmen? Sure you would see them more often, but that's just not the correct price for them.

0-1 Black Guard Pts/model: 15

Black Guard M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A1 Ld9
Black Master M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld9

Unit Size: 10+
Equipment: Hand weapon, halberd, heavy armour
Options:
· Upgrade one model to Musician (+6 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Standard Bearer (+12 pts)
· Upgrade one model to Black Master (+12 pts)
· May carry a magic standard worth up to 75 pts
Special Rules: Stubborn; Eternal Hatred

Looks good! I still like to give the Master the option of some magic items, tho.

0-1 Cauldron of Blood Pts/model: 150

Witch Elf Guardian M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A1 Ld8
Hag Queen M5 WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld8

Unit Size: One Cauldron of Blood, two Witch Elf Guardians and a Hag Queen
Equipment: Two hand weapons
Options:
· The Hag Queen may choose Temple of Khaine items and/or skills up to 50 pts
Special Rules: Cauldron of Blood; Terror; Keepers of the Cauldron; Burning Hatred;
Frenzy; Poisoned hand weapons; Devotees of Khaine

The cost is mainly due to the big change in the Cauldron rules above (only works for Witch Elves).

The idea to give the Hag Queen more item allowance looks promising, maybe we could build on that and make the Hag Queen a hero level model (2 Wounds and all the stuff), similar to the RoR in the DoW army?

Bye
Thanee

[Metallurgist]

Ah, the long awaited analysis! Great.

I must say that in general I am pleased with your assessment and I mostly agree with your comments, considering it's for the GP. Of course there are some exceptions (like the steed for beastmasters! ).

I will reply more in detail later.

Cheers,
-Metallurgist

[Langmann]

Can you folks instead put all those suggestions into the appropriate section? I know it may be a lot of work, but this thread will degenerate into uninterpretability in no time!

Also I am going to compile our suggestions in a week or two to get the main units behind us and get the opinion of the rest of this board on that. There is no way I'll be able to handle all this information in one thread like this! Some of these suggestions are quite good and I'm afraid I'll lose them.

If you guys did that it would be excellent.

[Thanee]

I already put many of my thoughts into the various sections, often copying directly from my topic.

Bye
Thanee