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Spearmen Open for Business 
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:46 pm
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I think 2 points may be a bit much, then we would only cost one more point than empire spears, and although they may have detachments we do have M,WS,I and leadership over them.


If we made a rule like that langman then I think hvy armor for spearmen only would be good.

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:31 am
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Location: Netherlands, Huizen
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langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:11 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:13 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:14 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:15 am
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Shade
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:15 am
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Shade
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save. All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:16 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save, although they do have weapon teams (I don't consider the +! to flee a real bonus). All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before...

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:18 am
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Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save, although they do have weapon teams (I don't consider the +! to flee a real bonus). All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before.

Let's face it Corsairs, CG or spearmen are not really the damage dealers of our army. Although corsairs can be nice on the offensive, and Cg on defensive, both arn't really known for their incredible quality at doing either job. However, both have a the same weakness, they are vulnarable.

Spearmen with HA not only will spearmen be better at defending then CG, becuase they can get a 3+ save, they will also be better at attacking.
Spearmen will be cheaper than both these units, and will be far more durable. Too bad they arn't that great at dealing damage, and doesn't matter a whole lot when you put a noble in the spearmen.

The only corsair bonus point is that they can have a magic banner and have 2 attacks on charge. But they still are more expensive and less resistant (spearmen also get a 4+ save against shooting, just like corsairs).
CG can shoot, but they are far more expensive and far less manouverable.

Combine this with the fact that spearmen don't look anymore heavily armoured then city guard, and this whole idea of HA sounds ridicolous. It would be the same as the exes with LA in the former army list, only now spearmen get HA when they clearly are wearing LA.

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:31 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save, although they do have weapon teams (I don't consider the +! to flee a real bonus). All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before.

Let's face it Corsairs, CG or spearmen are not really the damage dealers of our army. Although corsairs can be nice on the offensive, and Cg on defensive, both arn't really known for their incredible quality at doing either job. However, both have a the same weakness, they are vulnarable.

Spearmen with HA not only will spearmen be better at defending then CG, becuase they can get a 3+ save, they will also be better at attacking.
Spearmen will be cheaper than both these units, and will be far more durable. Too bad they arn't that great at dealing damage, and doesn't matter a whole lot when you put a noble in the spearmen.

The only corsair bonus point is that they can have a magic banner and have 2 attacks on charge. But they still are more expensive and less resistant (spearmen also get a 4+ save against shooting, just like corsairs).
CG can shoot, but they are far more expensive and far less manouverable.

Combine this with the fact that spearmen don't look anymore heavily armoured then city guard, and this whole idea of HA sounds ridicolous. It would be the same as the exes with LA in the former army list, only now spearmen get HA when they clearly are wearing LA.

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:32 am
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Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
langmann wrote:
I think the free reform would be better suited to corsairs first of all, and secondly make a better banner than anything else.


Why should corsairs have the free reform? They have had different training. Corsairs are like the marines, spearmen/CG the army. The superior training rule is much like 'counts troops' for the empire, or 'first among equals' for the high elves.
I can't see how this couldn't be seen as an option. All it is is an upgrade nothing more. If we were to include this in our revision, we could test both spearmen at 8pts and the free reform separately or in combination.
People thought it would be abusive to use free reform spearmen in vast numbers of units. Now, with my rule, this can't be done. I'm not seeing the problem here.

langmann wrote:
Secondly I hate to say it but DE may be an offensive army, but they are certainly not fast.

I think you are talikng about foot armies. Sadly cavalry dominates this game, so we can't really change anything for the DE foot troops. Anyway, We can make armies which are up the opponent's nose in turn 2 with our DE, so we don't really lack speed either.

langmann wrote:
Therefore I really like the idea of the spearmen being very cheap and possibly coming with heavy armour. That way you could make a large unit that can take a charge from all cavalry rather cheaply. (Remember pretty much no cavalry can beat a unit of spearmen unless the cavalry is stacked with a lord/hero or it has autobreak function with outnumber...).


It is a good idea. However spearmen with HA will be almsot the smae troops as stormvermin with shields. Both are at 9 points, but SV have worse I and LD. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I thought it we worth the mentioning.
Leaving the above aside, this would be the first elf foot regiment with a 3+ save, although they do have weapon teams (I don't consider the +! to flee a real bonus). All I'm saying is that doesn't really sound elfy to me.

langmann wrote:
I think spearmen are defensive by nature, and anything that changes that to make them better is just going to make corsairs, executioners and witch elves useless, or pigeon hole the spearmen into a role where the only cheap plastic unit we have is only useful on certain battlefields.

Agreed

langmann wrote:
Finally it makes garrison formation/cityguard an attractive addition to spearmen without making spearmen obsolete. (Garrison would cost 10 points/model, 13 for rxb as usual.)
I think DA has hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, although I might have a problem with heavy elves like I said before.

Let's face it Corsairs, CG or spearmen are not really the damage dealers of our army. Although corsairs can be nice on the offensive, and Cg on defensive, both arn't really known for their incredible quality at doing either job. However, both have a the same weakness, they are vulnarable.

Spearmen with HA not only will spearmen be better at defending then CG, becuase they can get a 3+ save, they will also be better at attacking.
Spearmen will be cheaper than both these units, and will be far more durable. Too bad they arn't that great at dealing damage, and doesn't matter a whole lot when you put a noble in the spearmen.

The only corsair bonus point is that they can have a magic banner and have 2 attacks on charge. But they still are more expensive and less resistant (spearmen also get a 4+ save against shooting, just like corsairs).
CG can shoot, but they are far more expensive and far less manouverable.

Combine this with the fact that spearmen don't look anymore heavily armoured then city guard, and this whole idea of HA sounds ridiculous. It would be the same as the exes with LA in the former army list, only now spearmen get HA when they clearly are wearing LA.

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:34 am
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Terror of the South
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:58 am
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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For my own clarification and for others at this point i would like those who do not agree with the armour piercing rule to say so so we can see if we have anything agreed on thus far

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:40 am
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Highborn
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
"Empire detachments"
"Skaven weapons teams, live to fight another day"
"Undead cause fear, raise dead"


I just sat thinking about this, nice idea.

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:40 am
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Terror of the South
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:58 am
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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For my sake and for everyone elses i would like those who oppose the AP idea to say so we can see poeples views

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:42 am
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:04 am
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Location: Hengelo, The Netherlands
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Well, if we make cheaper Spearmen a distinct Dark Elf advantage (Based on some fluff that states that everyone fights), I certainly like it.

(So far, I was against it since it would be unfair to other races. As a special DE rule, it fits)


Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:51 am
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Location: Newcastle Oz
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OK heres one that is very Druchii and original - when a drannach warrior unit breaks an enemy in combat that enemy is slowed by the use of the variors hooks, barbs etc on the drannach as the warriors attempt to capture as many enmey as possible. The breaking unit deducts 1 from its flee distance.

And make them cheaper.

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:56 am
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OK heres one that is very Druchii and original - when a drannach warrior unit breaks an enemy in combat that enemy is slowed by the use of the variors hooks, barbs etc on the drannach as the warriors attempt to capture as many enemy as possible. The breaking unit deducts 1 from its flee distance.

And make them cheaper.

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:59 am
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Noble
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Location: Hengelo, The Netherlands
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So far, I do like the idea of cheaper Spearmen. By making it a Dark Elf special rule (backed up by fluff on full mobilization), it can done without making it unfair towards the other races.
(Normally I am not in favour for advantages in form of point reduction; I like it that points are 'correct' and matching across the board, but well, the army books are already filled with odd priced units)

Adding heavy armour could make the Spearelves really different and interesting. Also, it sets Dark Elves further apart from High & Wood.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:02 am
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Silver Khaine Winner
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Location: Newcastle Oz
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OK heres one that is very Druchii and original - when a drannach warrior unit breaks an enemy in combat that enemy is slowed by the use of the variors hooks, barbs etc on the drannach as the warriors attempt to capture as many enemy as possible. The breaking unit deducts 1 from its flee distance.

And make them cheaper.

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:04 am
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:04 am
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Location: Hengelo, The Netherlands
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So far, I do like the idea of cheaper Spearmen. By making it a Dark Elf special rule (backed up by fluff on full mobilization), it can done without making it unfair towards the other races.
(Normally I am not in favour for advantages in form of point reduction; I like it that points are 'correct' and matching across the board, but well, the army books are already filled with odd priced units)

Adding heavy armour could make the Spearelves really different and interesting. Also, it sets Dark Elves further apart from High & Wood.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:08 am
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:04 am
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Location: Hengelo, The Netherlands
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So far, I do like the idea of cheaper Spearmen. By making it a Dark Elf special rule (backed up by fluff on full mobilization), it can done without making it unfair towards the other races.
(Normally I am not in favour for advantages in form of point reduction; I like it that points are 'correct' and matching across the board, but well, the army books are already filled with odd priced units)

Adding heavy armour could make the Spearelves really different and interesting. Also, it sets Dark Elves further apart from High & Wood.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:13 am
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:04 am
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Location: Hengelo, The Netherlands
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So far, I do like the idea of cheaper Spearmen. By making it a Dark Elf special rule (backed up by fluff on full mobilization), it can done without making it unfair towards the other races.
(Normally I am not in favour for advantages in form of point reduction; I like it that points are 'correct' and matching across the board, but well, the army books are already filled with odd priced units)

Adding heavy armour could make the Spearelves really different and interesting. Also, it sets Dark Elves further apart from High & Wood.


Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:13 am
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Highborn
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Location: Europe
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to give them the option for HA and lower their points would be ok!
but then we could use handweapons with the spearmen -> 3+ AS for 9 points...

the idea of always attacking in two ranks would make them more offensive... more druchiilike, but would take away an advantage of the corsairs! with HA the speamen are more resistant in combination with spears this is a useful defensive unit!

don't forget: not every unit needs special rules! especially normal spearmen (core!) don't deserve greater rules...

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:50 am
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Highborn
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Location: Europe
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to give them the option for HA and lower their points would be ok!
but then we could use handweapons with the spearmen -> 3+ AS for 9 points...

the idea of always attacking in two ranks would make them more offensive... more druchiilike, but would take away an advantage of the corsairs! with HA the speamen are more resistant in combination with spears this is a useful defensive unit!

don't forget: not every unit needs special rules! especially normal spearmen (core!) don't deserve greater rules...

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At last, we will have revenge...


Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:53 am
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Highborn
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:02 pm
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Location: Europe
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to give them the option for HA and lower their points would be ok!
but then we could use handweapons with the spearmen -> 3+ AS for 9 points...

the idea of always attacking in two ranks would make them more offensive... more druchiilike, but would take away an advantage of the corsairs! with HA the speamen are more resistant in combination with spears this is a useful defensive unit!

don't forget: not every unit needs special rules! especially normal spearmen (core!) don't deserve greater rules...

regards Morasul

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Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:55 am
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