Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:33 pm



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 17 posts ] 
Slave unit 
Author Message
Executioner

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:49 pm
Posts: 153
Good day all testers.

Context and introduction:

Here are the rules for a potentially interesting unit to add to the revision. I was asked to post it here so that we may test and refine the rules for the best. As you will see, there was no plan for slavers at the time the rules were designed so we'll need to work on that part. Basically he will have to whip and control them so they go where we want them to.


Why slaves?
Slaves are so much part of the Druchii culture that they should be integrated in their battle tactics. For a Druchii Captain, wasting his slaves in battle is a costly operation, but victory for the king always comes first.

Commanders are taught early that slaves lost in a fight will be replaced by others if the battle is won. Many factions within the Druchii society are prone to use slaves in battle. Witch elves often encourage the Nobles to sacrifice slaves in the bloodiest way, as it is seen as a great offer to the temple of Khaine.

A good Druchii commander will burst in an evil laughter while his slaves are getting trampled by the enemy...it is time that slaves are put to good use!

Making your slaves.
Slaves are fun to make. Not only you are completely free to mutilate and to torture your models, but they will just look better for it! Making slaves is a good way to explore the darker side of the world of Warhammer and it opens new ideas for conversions. There is a ton of miniatures that can make perfect slaves and I have found that the Mordheim line perfect to give a gloomy and patchy style of slaves, but they can be done with just about every other model. They should be relatively man-sized as a slave unit of Ogres should be represented as Dogs of Wars(it's rare, mind you).

CORE UNIT.


Slaves..............................................................................4 pts model

The slaves that Dark Elves use on the battlefield are pathetic wretches, the unnamed remnants of once proud warriors, poor villagers, thugs, old widows, Orcs, etc. In other words: anyone unfortunate enough not to have died fighting. The race of the slave is irrelevant as all of them loose are equal under the whips of Naggaroth. Reflexes, Strength and Constitution are mined by constant torture, fatigue and starvation. Morale could not possibly be lower as every slave know that their death is close by. On the other hand, they can be used to distract and annoy the enemy by swarming them. This is often lethal for the slaves, but apparently their masters find it well worth the loss.
Beastmasters are responsible of a Noble's slaves, because they know how to tame and control cattle.

M....WS...BS...S...T...W...A.....I...LD
4.....2......2.....3...3....1....1....2....3

Weapons: Slaves are usually not given weapons as they could just as easily turn on their own masters. They must rely on chains, helmets, fists and old pads of armor.

Armor: none

Unit Size: 15-30


Special Rules:

Skirmish: Whenever the slave are sent on the battlefield, complete anarchy follows. They move with no cohesion and most of them do not have the discipline (or motivation) to fight in formation.

Meat Shields: Most slaves are sent in battle to be used as meat shields, and they know this. Their motivation to run to their doom is obviously low and as such they need "extra encouragement". For this reason, slaves will not march or charge unless a beastmaster is within 5" of the unit. Slave units may use the leadership of any Beastmaster within 5".

Pathetic: Dark Elves expect slaves to flee and are not affected by panicking slave units. Harpies and unridden monsters are affected as normal.

Unarmed: Slaves are not equiped to fight. Most of them must rely on brutal techniques to survive. Slave units always strike last even when charging. This reflect that some of them are reluctant to kill and that they need to litterally jump on foe.



Options:

0-1 Drugged slaves: For +2 points per models. Particularily aggressive or untrustworthy units are given drugs to increase their battle effectiveness. Although unpredictable, they are usually more useful than normal slaves and are given crude clubs and axes, forks and spears. Drugged Slaves do not count as unarmed. See the Drug table below for effects.

Chains: For +1 points per model, you may chain the slaves together. This forces them to use a ranked formation, but will reduce their mobility considerably. Chained Slaves have a movement of 3 and will be wiped out if they loose a combat (as they are unable to flee). They may not "reform" as they would get entangled and trip over each other.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug Table
Roll once on the table at the start of the battle to determine the effects of the drugs.

1- Intoxication: The drug given to this unit have an unpleasant lethal poisonous effect or was not appropriate for the slave's metabolism. The unit will suffer D6 S3 hits at the start of each Dark Elf turn.


2- Moronic zealots: The slaves drools and howls incoherently, they do not seem to be concerned about their own fate anymore. Consider the unit as Immune to psychology. On the other hand, they will not be wise enough to flee from combat. Remove them as casualties if they are forced to flee.

3- Mindless sheep: The slaves have been stripped from all emotions and have suddenly forgotten about their own death and the battle. The unit is Immune to Psychology, but nothing in the world will be able to whip them into a march or charge even if the Beastmaster is within 5".

4- Berserk!: The slaves have gone completely wild this time and want to tear apart everything that is around them. They are subject to Frenzy, but in such state that they will fight themselves. The unit suffer D6 S3 hits at the start of each Dark Elf turn. They still need the Beastmaster to march or charge as he needs to give them directions and stop them from fighting each other.

5-6 Enraged: The drug have turned the slaves into killing machines asking for the enemy's blood. The unit is subject to Frenzy and they will not need a Beastmaster to march or charge.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Author: This article was written about a week ago. In the meanwhile it was sent to White dwarf (this post is mostly extracted from it). Since we learned that Gav is thinking of putting slavers this project just got even more potential by the same token.

Why 4 points? may seem steep for a slave, but we need to realise that the Dark Elf army was made to be outnumbered.

With slaves we would get the potential to reduce the ratio. Also, keep in mind that it is commonly stated that Dark Elf units are extraordinary flankers: what we lack is the unit to sacrifice in order to produce the situation required to use our great units. Slaves are one of the best way to resolve this problem. It also have the added bonus of bringing in more of the wonderful fluff we love...to the game table!


Please test it out, then post comments. Have fun and a great laugh at the expense of your slaves!


Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:48 am
Profile
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9709
Location: In the paintshop
Post 
So far this is the best set out idea I have seen for slaves.

Now to take it to the next stage and develop an appendix list based around a DE Slaving army.


Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:03 pm
Profile
Hunter Of The Night
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:17 pm
Posts: 2152
Location: England
Post 
Agree but perhaps Slaves don't count towards core choices. At least not in the regular Dark Elf list. The Slave appendix list will obviosuely be an exception.


Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:19 pm
Profile
Executioner

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:49 pm
Posts: 153
Post 
I am not sure about the concept of a "slaving" army. I believe that the "raiding" army would fit best for the use of slaves.

The concept would be based on the Black Ark armies that come ashore and capture whoever they can, then try to withdraw before opposition muster. I will sketch the lines of it below.

--------------------------------
Some precisions on the reasoning behind those rules.

The reason they need to be placed in the core choice is because the Dark Elf army is based around Elite units. The purpose of the Slaves is to provide the army a cheap, expendible core unit so that we can create the situation where our unit shines already.

I have been asked why the units auto-disappear often when broken while chained together. First there are logical reasons: the slaves are almost invariably exhausted, they can't run much. Second, they are chained with barbed chains...they would trip over and wound themselves. Drugged slaves often do not even think of survival anymore so why would they flee?

The result of this is that the enemy will overrun. If you're a veteran player, you know that a badly timed overrun is the doom of a unit. It will leave the unit far in front of the rest of his army. If you planned right, you will have the opportunity for a flank charge. Test it, it's really funny.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raiding Army (Black Ark garrison)

Lord choices:
-High Born

Hero choices:
-Noble
-Sorceress
-Beastmaster
-Assassin
-Slavemaster***

Core Choices:

-Corsairs
-Crossbowmen
-Slaves
0-1 Drugged Slaves

Special Choices:

-Dark Riders
-Shades
-Harpies
-Reaper Bolt Trhowers (in the fluff, the corsairs use them alot)

Rare Choices:

-Cold One Knights
-Executioners
-Black Guard
-Witch Elves

***The slavemaster rules are not designed yet, i am watching the list on this board and will collect/resume/add it when we have something decent to present.

I also need to test the slave unit more. Please help me on this!


Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:48 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:36 am
Posts: 501
Location: Krakow /Poland
Post 
I like this idea and it is wery climatic.

_________________
Innocence proves nothing


Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:38 pm
Profile ICQ
Terror of the South
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:58 am
Posts: 1322
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Post 
4 pts!

no way.

even if we are supposed to be elite and pay for stuff this is too far ESPECIALLY with the upgrades. I like the idea however of chained slaves but i dont like the table drawn up. It is too random. Some everlasting effect like frenzy or immune to phycology would be much better.

Also although the beastmaster should be the only one allowed to join the unit i think that they should have slavemasters as part of the unit also.

What i think of slaves is gretching in 40k ork army with theri living sheilds and slaver guy. This is what our unit should be like.

You know in 40k when a commisar shoots and officer when he runs. Well a slave/beastmaster should be able to kill slaves to get them controlled.

lastly if a beastmaster is the character that has an effect on slaves then in the slavers list you have to include hydras, dragons, manticores, cold ones and harpies so he can have effect elsewhere also

_________________
Do you hate Malekith?

Are you interested in seeing the overthrow of his incompetence to be replaced by a system capable of taking Ulthuan back??

Join the spirit of Lakulei today - PM me now!


Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:44 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:36 am
Posts: 501
Location: Krakow /Poland
Post 
I think we should give them one more rule: opponent want to shoot or charge slaves need to pass LD check cos' they will be probably firing also to it mates who has bad luck and after loosing battle was cathed by DE it will not afect scavens because of live is cheap rule.

_________________
Innocence proves nothing


Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:32 am
Profile ICQ
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Post 
ANNOUNCEMENT! IMPORTANT.

At this time Lord Uramael will be managing the construction of the Slave List. I would like you all to work with him to reach a consensus about this list and help him playtest it.

Please refer to him for further instructions.

Remember the list is an APPENDIX list and while it can involve the introduction of new units such as slaves, it should contain many of the units we already possess. Thus you also need to design a list as well, not just slaves.

Thank you! :D

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:09 pm
Profile
Executioner

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:49 pm
Posts: 153
Post 
Naram Sin wrote:
I think we should give them one more rule: opponent want to shoot or charge slaves need to pass LD check cos' they will be probably firing also to it mates who has bad luck and after loosing battle was cathed by DE it will not afect scavens because of live is cheap rule.


I had already come out with that kind of option before writing the text, but there are problems with the lore as well as with the point cost per model. What i had tought was an option similar to "skull of the foe".

Some races don't have any moral problem at bashing their own race (skaven, chaos, orcs, ). Other races are almost impossible to enslave (undead, lizardmen fight to the death). While humans and elves would definitely be annoyed to fight their captured comrades, it seems to me that it would only complicate matters for just a few armies.

I will keep the idea in my notes though if the unit develop itself in that direction. Remember that every ability cost something as well.

what we need really need is some battle reports including the slave unit.


Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:12 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:56 am
Posts: 2261
Location: Flying my manticore 'Bloodmaw', looking for prey.
Post 
Personally, I would just drop all the random options for the drugs. Just give them frenzy if drugged instead. The reason for this is to reduce the amount of rules for them and also because random stuff is unpopular with a lot of DE players.

It would be tempting to make them work like a ridden monster somehow. That would allow the option of having the enemy control them if the handlers were killed. Say for example if they also had 3 apprentice beastmasters that always formed in the back ranks (and gave leadership) in a similar way to the hydra.

_________________
ImageImage
http://urialsulla.mybrute.com


Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:51 am
Profile
Shade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands, Huizen
Post 
I agree with sulla, the drug table is way to random and would discourage the use of slaves IMO. Just give them frenzy, an they are alright.

Also with all these upgrades, slaves get to be way to expensive. IMO the unit should be sacrificial just like skaven slaves. The higher the points cost the less tempting it is too sacrifice your slaves in battle.

I had some ideas for the slave LIST but I'm not sure where to post these.

_________________
War is not about who is right, but who is left.


Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:46 am
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:07 am
Posts: 175
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
The list Lord Uramael posted is fine imho. Though I am new to this board I am a venerable DE player. I guess I will have to prove my worth :)

I posted a proposal for a slaveunit in the Petitions but no one has commented :( Anyway I disagree with the notion of characters controlling slaves. First : new rules should be simple. Second : whatever form the unit takes it should not be a cheap alternative. That is the role of the spearelves(which should have the pointreduction imo). As of now the slaveunit is just a cheap missilescreen/speedbump. I agree with Reader of posts that the unit should be sacrificable and not an offensive tool in a traditional sense.

I repost my idéa for specialrules concerning the slaveunit here. Pointcosts/stats/etc. ignored atm. The part of a uniform statline for slaves, whatever minis/race are used, I agree with. It would be a huge and confusing project trying to sort out different bases, possible psychologyrules(gobbo slaves? do they Fear my elves? do the dwarfslaves Hate my Orcs?) if we allowed it to get entagled into that sort of detail. Btw if this is incorrect procedure I apologize(atm the board is crammed with info on playtesting and reporting. confusing!)

Special rules: Skirmishers, Run for your lives!, Worthless scum

Run for your lives! : At the start of his turn the Dark Elf player can automatically cause any or all of his slavemobs not in melée to break. A broken slavemob is no longer considered to be a unit belonging to the Dark elf player but of his opponent(after resolving any pursuits if the unit broke in melée). A broken slavemob will always consider opponents side of the table to be the nearest tableedge.

Worthless scum : Dark Elves ignore Panictests caused by slavemobs. A slavemob is never worth victorypoints. The points are instead added to the Dark Elf generals worth of VP.

---------------------------

Explanation/reasoning for my proposal:

DE are supposed to be the most offensive elven army according to Gav.

A considerable part of DE´s offensive arsenal is Fear and Terror.

Elves are a small elite force whatever form they appear in. Not a horde army.

Fluffwise I do not picture Druchii using slaves as CD do. I belive the story in the armybook about DE vs. Brets is more true.

Some uses with my proposed rules:

First it can be used defensively like any other skirmishers to soak missiles or screen chargers. The size ensures that there isn´t an overrun which would be a weakness, but most likely a rout and pursuit. Note that the first time a mob breaks there is never a panictest. Because at that time they are considered to be DE and they follow the Worthless scum rule.

The trick is to force the enemy to engage the mob and probably be forced to try stop a pursuit which would leave it tactically vulnerable. Alternatively halt the pursuit and also leave itself in a tactically viable position. Either choice is a possibly bad option.

Secondly mobs can be used as a subtle variant of Fear and Terror. Remember that when a mob breaks it turns into a unit considered belonging to the opposing side. This will force the enemy to abide by the rules of psychology and cause panictests. As a fleeing mob will take it´s route straight towards the opponents table edge the chance it will cause tests increases.

Further note that Run for your lives! happens at the start of the turn. Thus it is legal to break a mob and delare a charge against it, as it is point 1 in the movementphase whereas compulsary(Fleeing) is at 4 followed by moving chargers in 5. A trick here would be to break a mob, charge it, pursue and destroy it and in the end hopefully end up with a pursuit into a fresh enemy. Basically the mob would function as a “deflecting wall” in defense and “springboard” in offense.

I belive that this better simulates the evil nature and horrific reputation of the Druchii. And also brings in an interesting element in the game with many subtle uses but without alot of extra rules to remember. In effect this unit just tries to use the rules of panic and pursuit to gain an edge beyond what usual skirmishers do.

Lastly it wouldn´t need any new minis and mobs could easily be made with for example empire freecompanies.


Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:54 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:07 am
Posts: 175
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
The list Lord Uramael posted is fine imho. Though I am new to this board I am a venerable DE player. I guess I will have to prove my worth :)

I posted a proposal for a slaveunit in the Petitions but no one has commented :( Anyway I disagree with the notion of characters controlling slaves. First : new rules should be simple. Second : whatever form the unit takes it should not be a cheap alternative. That is the role of the spearelves(which should have the pointreduction imo). As of now the slaveunit is just a cheap missilescreen/speedbump. I agree with Reader of posts that the unit should be sacrificable and not an offensive tool in a traditional sense.

I repost my idéa for specialrules concerning the slaveunit here. Pointcosts/stats/etc. ignored atm. The part of a uniform statline for slaves, whatever minis/race are used, I agree with. It would be a huge and confusing project trying to sort out different bases, possible psychologyrules(gobbo slaves? do they Fear my elves? do the dwarfslaves Hate my Orcs?) if we allowed it to get entagled into that sort of detail. Btw if this is incorrect procedure I apologize(atm the board is crammed with info on playtesting and reporting. confusing!)

Special rules: Skirmishers, Run for your lives!, Worthless scum

Run for your lives! : At the start of his turn the Dark Elf player can automatically cause any or all of his slavemobs not in melée to break. A broken slavemob is no longer considered to be a unit belonging to the Dark elf player but of his opponent(after resolving any pursuits if the unit broke in melée). A broken slavemob will always consider opponents side of the table to be the nearest tableedge.

Worthless scum : Dark Elves ignore Panictests caused by slavemobs. A slavemob is never worth victorypoints. The points are instead added to the Dark Elf generals worth of VP.

---------------------------

Explanation/reasoning for my proposal:

DE are supposed to be the most offensive elven army according to Gav.

A considerable part of DE´s offensive arsenal is Fear and Terror.

Elves are a small elite force whatever form they appear in. Not a horde army.

Fluffwise I do not picture Druchii using slaves as CD do. I belive the story in the armybook about DE vs. Brets is more true.

Some uses with my proposed rules:

First it can be used defensively like any other skirmishers to soak missiles or screen chargers. The size ensures that there isn´t an overrun which would be a weakness, but most likely a rout and pursuit. Note that the first time a mob breaks there is never a panictest. Because at that time they are considered to be DE and they follow the Worthless scum rule.

The trick is to force the enemy to engage the mob and probably be forced to try stop a pursuit which would leave it tactically vulnerable. Alternatively halt the pursuit and also leave itself in a tactically viable position. Either choice is a possibly bad option.

Secondly mobs can be used as a subtle variant of Fear and Terror. Remember that when a mob breaks it turns into a unit considered belonging to the opposing side. This will force the enemy to abide by the rules of psychology and cause panictests. As a fleeing mob will take it´s route straight towards the opponents table edge the chance it will cause tests increases.

Further note that Run for your lives! happens at the start of the turn. Thus it is legal to break a mob and delare a charge against it, as it is point 1 in the movementphase whereas compulsary(Fleeing) is at 4 followed by moving chargers in 5. A trick here would be to break a mob, charge it, pursue and destroy it and in the end hopefully end up with a pursuit into a fresh enemy. Basically the mob would function as a “deflecting wall” in defense and “springboard” in offense.

I belive that this better simulates the evil nature and horrific reputation of the Druchii. And also brings in an interesting element in the game with many subtle uses but without alot of extra rules to remember. In effect this unit just tries to use the rules of panic and pursuit to gain an edge beyond what usual skirmishers do.

Lastly it wouldn´t need any new minis and mobs could easily be made with for example empire freecompanies.


Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:56 pm
Profile
Executioner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:07 am
Posts: 175
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
The list Lord Uramael posted is fine imho. Though I am new to this board I am a venerable DE player. I guess I will have to prove my worth :)

I posted a proposal for a slaveunit in the Petitions but no one has commented :( Anyway I disagree with the notion of characters controlling slaves. First : new rules should be simple. Second : whatever form the unit takes it should not be a cheap alternative. That is the role of the spearelves(which should have the pointreduction imo). As of now the slaveunit is just a cheap missilescreen/speedbump. I agree with Reader of posts that the unit should be sacrificable and not an offensive tool in a traditional sense.

I repost my idéa for specialrules concerning the slaveunit here. Pointcosts/stats/etc. ignored atm. The part of a uniform statline for slaves, whatever minis/race are used, I agree with. It would be a huge and confusing project trying to sort out different bases, possible psychologyrules(gobbo slaves? do they Fear my elves? do the dwarfslaves Hate my Orcs?) if we allowed it to get entagled into that sort of detail. Btw if this is incorrect procedure I apologize(atm the board is crammed with info on playtesting and reporting. confusing!)

Special rules: Skirmishers, Run for your lives!, Worthless scum

Run for your lives! : At the start of his turn the Dark Elf player can automatically cause any or all of his slavemobs not in melée to break. A broken slavemob is no longer considered to be a unit belonging to the Dark elf player but of his opponent(after resolving any pursuits if the unit broke in melée). A broken slavemob will always consider opponents side of the table to be the nearest tableedge.

Worthless scum : Dark Elves ignore Panictests caused by slavemobs. A slavemob is never worth victorypoints. The points are instead added to the Dark Elf generals worth of VP.

---------------------------

Explanation/reasoning for my proposal:

DE are supposed to be the most offensive elven army according to Gav.

A considerable part of DE´s offensive arsenal is Fear and Terror.

Elves are a small elite force whatever form they appear in. Not a horde army.

Fluffwise I do not picture Druchii using slaves as CD do. I belive the story in the armybook about DE vs. Brets is more true.

Some uses with my proposed rules:

First it can be used defensively like any other skirmishers to soak missiles or screen chargers. The size ensures that there isn´t an overrun which would be a weakness, but most likely a rout and pursuit. Note that the first time a mob breaks there is never a panictest. Because at that time they are considered to be DE and they follow the Worthless scum rule.

The trick is to force the enemy to engage the mob and probably be forced to try stop a pursuit which would leave it tactically vulnerable. Alternatively halt the pursuit and also leave itself in a tactically viable position. Either choice is a possibly bad option.

Secondly mobs can be used as a subtle variant of Fear and Terror. Remember that when a mob breaks it turns into a unit considered belonging to the opposing side. This will force the enemy to abide by the rules of psychology and cause panictests. As a fleeing mob will take it´s route straight towards the opponents table edge the chance it will cause tests increases.

Further note that Run for your lives! happens at the start of the turn. Thus it is legal to break a mob and delare a charge against it, as it is point 1 in the movementphase whereas compulsary(Fleeing) is at 4 followed by moving chargers in 5. A trick here would be to break a mob, charge it, pursue and destroy it and in the end hopefully end up with a pursuit into a fresh enemy. Basically the mob would function as a “deflecting wall” in defense and “springboard” in offense.

I belive that this better simulates the evil nature and horrific reputation of the Druchii. And also brings in an interesting element in the game with many subtle uses but without alot of extra rules to remember. In effect this unit just tries to use the rules of panic and pursuit to gain an edge beyond what usual skirmishers do.

Lastly it wouldn´t need any new minis and mobs could easily be made with for example empire freecompanies.


Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:00 pm
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:46 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
Post 
I really like your ideas scatha, that is exactly how I see slaves being used, not as combat troops but as a screen that the dark elves run right over once they dont need the protection anymore.

_________________
~The moon will run red tonight~


Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:59 pm
Profile
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Post 
I like what Lord Uramael has said. However I think the slaves should be a bit cheaper, I think about 2 points. This would bring them closely in line with the costs of Skaven slaves, which can still M5, and I4.

However, I really like the drugged chart of yours! I see no point to frenzied slaves, unfortunately other than the fact that they are immune to psychology when frenzied. I like immune to psychology a lot. In fact I think frenzy might be a detriment because they could easily be baited into heading off into the sunset... I think rolling a 6 should make them unbreakable. This would really get in the way of the enemy on the battlefield.

Just some thoughts. Also people need to come up with normal DE units that are allowed in the list.

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:37 am
Profile
Executioner

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:49 pm
Posts: 153
Post 
Thanks for all the comments. It's all useful as we're still defining the rules.


---> I also liked scathca's idea of fleeing slaves toward the opponent's edge, stay tuned.

Speaking of beastmasters, i have chosen them to "control" the unit because it gives them another ability/use (and let's admit they need more. It also fits with the fluff as Dark Elves see the slaves more like cattle or trained thralls...nothing more.

The big issue: the point cost.

In my opinion, the skaven slave unit is exactly the opposite of the route we should take for our slaves.

a) they are reliable (ld 10 with general !lol! )

b) they get a command ( :roll: )

c) they fight in a ranked formation with all the discipline of seasoned warriors... :|

d) The skaven army is designed to outnumber the foe. The slaves, even at 2pts per model, do not break the ratio skaven/enemy by much.

While i could see the normal slave being worth 2 points for a human army, the same slaves in the druchii army would be far more useful. That is because most of our troops are tailored for the flank charge. With slaves we get the sacrificial unit to do it.

We should pay an extra point for the extra advantage the slave gives to our units.
Remember that Skaven armies do not have any cavalry units. Orc and goblins army have rampant animosity problems. (ok you'll say we have stupidity, but i assume this will be mostly fixed with the revision)


That being said, I have made a few tests and agree with you (almost everyone) that 4pt is too much for what they give. Let's test the unit at 3pt per model.

------------------------------------------------------------
On chains:
The chained option was decent to me, the +3 resolution to combat greatly helps if used well. The -1 move gives a challenge and ensure that the unit is not as good on offensive purposes.

On drugs:
I think i prefer to keep the drugged option as a random table for the moment. The druchii are certainly not caring enough to give the slaves the right dose of the right drug everytime. The random factor is realistic: the odds are that drugs will overwhelm the slave's weakened metabolism. Also, since drugging your slaves include some risks, if you don't want to deal with it, just don't drug them :).

-------------------------------------------------------------------


CORE UNIT

Slaves........................3pts per model

M...WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...LD
4.....2.....2.....3...3....1...2...1....3

Weapon: None

Armor: None

Options: The unit can be chained for +1pts per model.
The unit can be drugged for +2pts per model.

Special Rules:

Unarmed, Skirmish, Meat Shields, Pathetic (ed. i will rephrase those skills soon)


Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:35 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 17 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software