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Asrai, Ulthuan and Druchii websites 
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Corsair
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Hi D.net community. :D
There are important matters affecting the near and far future, for which the admin team would like to have your attention.


Our world is changing.
GW has destroyed the Olde World. Athel Loren exists no longer.
It has real world consequences: the Wood Elves' website, Asrai.org, is withering: see Goodbye Asrai.org :o_O:

But there is a future for all elven races and their forums: :D
9th Age will give a new start (and new names) to all three factions, and GW's AoS will sooner or later provide the three factions another go as well.
All three present Elven websites are full of treasures, with so many contributions which deserve to be preserved for the future.
Elven fans have lots to say to other fans in the coming years.


We want to give Asrai.org a future.
The admin teams from both Ulthuan.net and Druchii.net have investigated together what could be done.
It appears that there is no need to host the three websites on three different hosts - and pay three fees - when a single host can do the job.
The way to preserve Asrai.org is to merge the hosts. This is a purely administrative change, impacting only webmasters.
No change at all would be perceived from the users.


Moving forwards and creating a pan-Elve community?
Anticipating that all three websites will have a common host, this opens an easier perspective for deeper collaboration.
The Mod team in Ulthuan.net initiated a debate to test their community's appetite for developing something in common. See: You probably never saw this coming
The initial reaction in Ulthuan seems positive.

Dear D.netter, what would be YOUR feelings about bridging some gaps with the other elven websites? :D
Here is YOUR chance to influence the future developments of Druchii.net and the other Elven websites.

1. Do you wish to keep the three websites totally separate as today?
2. Or would you like to see some common pan-Elven developments, as long as each faction retains its main features (color themes...)?
3. Or would you like to see a deeper merge, with only a few separate sub-forums as necessary, allowing the users to browse all topics with a single login?
4. Or other ideas?

Please post below your wishes, so that we could examine how best they could be addressed.
Thank you.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:05 am
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I say option 2 - each faction retains its main features, but with some commonality.

I also say they all have to merge with us, and not vice-versa. After all, we are true masters of the race, and Malekith is the rightful king of all elfkind. Just sayin. :)

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:41 am
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Seeing as Asrai.org is the place I started, this is very sad news for me. And I am glad the site will be saved.

As for a larger merge, I would only welcome it. I think the communities overlap anyway (and I myself have tried to watch all three and have been sadly failing) I would vote for some form of connection, seeing that our activity isn't what it used to be either (I'm not sure about Ulthuan.net), but will support anything to keep us all going.

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Last edited by Rowena on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:37 am
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Rowena wrote:
Seeing as Asrai.org is the place I started, this is very sad news for me.


It is unfortunate indeed, but by moving all forums to a single host we can save Asrai. From a user/member point of view, nothing changes. The forum remains available through asrai.org, theme and content included. This is our "short" term goal.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:51 am
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So a few thoughts. I am for a merger as I already have vested interested on all three fora, although Druchii is by far and away the one I am most active on.
Combining to a single host to save both Asrai and money is definitely a sensible idea. Regardless of Forum changes. I am very grateful for those who pay for the upkeep here, so anything that can be done to reduce those costs is a positive.

Community wise, it is hardly a secret that all three sites are down on traffic these days, although this has picked up a bit recently. I think there are opportunities in bringing the number of posters up and increasing activity here.

A total combined website is certainly an idea, there are a number of overlapping sub fora within each site that could be made communal, these include - General Chat, Painting and Modelling, Introductions and the such. Each community could then have it's own sanctuary in which to never venture out of if they so desired or potentially spread their wings and see what our traitorous kin are up to.

Each of the communities has great contributors and many already span all three sites, I haven't found that there is a particularly negative attitude on any of the forum and all seem to be pretty friendly, certainly no where near as hostile as places like Warseer and to a certain extent some of the threads on the 9th Age forum. People might like to have their known community and Fortress of Solitude to retreat to, for more positive discussions with people they trust.

A few questions on logistics to consider that others may not feel they can ask, so even though I know the answer on some, I will post them here for the experts to fill in the details, assuming one single forum for all.
Maybe if others have questions and we go ahead full steam, we create a 'FAQ'.

- What about my current account? Do we start from scratch or can rankings and post counts be credited?

- In the case the accounts can be credited, what if I have accounts on all three? Can a sum of all be taken or just my favourite one?

- Will the forum be on the same platform?

- How will my local friendly moderation team be split? In total Druchii has 6 currently. Ulthuan ,7 I believe, plus those from Asrai, I assume a similar number.
Would they retain ownership in specific areas with a few "Overlords" Universal mods spanning the entire forum?

- I know Ulthuan have opened up a community discussion, what about Asrai? Maybe some of there mods who lurk here could add perspective on their thoughts?

- What would we call ourselves, Elves United, Malekith is the One true King? :)

- All three sites have great content, will all the historical threads be able to be brought across?

Think that should be enough food for thought for the moment.

Don't be shy people if you have questions, this is a big decision and we need to do the best for each forum and their members.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:26 am
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Highborn
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Daeron wrote:
Rowena wrote:
Seeing as Asrai.org is the place I started, this is very sad news for me.


It is unfortunate indeed, but by moving all forums to a single host we can save Asrai. From a user/member point of view, nothing changes. The forum remains available through asrai.org, theme and content included. This is our "short" term goal.


I have realised/read/understood this after typing the reply and I am very glad for that. This is what happens when I try to process news and write something coherent when I'm still half asleep.

Amboadine, those are great thoughts and questions.
I think I like the idea of combining some topics and keeping others separate. And uniting the Painting and modelling topics would make life way easier for me. I don't frequent any other topics, so I can't really say much about those, but yes, having a dark/wood/high elf sanctuaries might be nice. And I would definitely be very happy if the existing content would be saved or carried over in some way.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:49 am
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About technical merge I totally agree ofcourse. In the case the activity will remain low even when the hobby is active again I'm 100% for merge. But when the communities will slowly adapt to the 9th age which I expect and we will be as active as we were I prefer having three seperate forums. This gives indeed a feeling of 'home', especially since the conflict between the high and dark elves is something I have always liked most. Although we are bitter enemies and are supposed 'to hate' each other, on the forums we are friendly and welcoming. I don't know if this is the case if we had to share the same 'home' always.

I would fully support more initiatives between all three forums to get to know each other and then maybe from there merge, but a direct merge would be too soon, I think.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:17 am
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I vote for option two, particularly to enjoy their posts on painting/modelling and hobby articles. I don't intend to read their tactics specifically but easy access to common FAQs the three groups have would be nice.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:55 am
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Interesting questions Amboadine.

For me, there is a clear separation in who should handle the questions, because IMO they are either very technical or merely a matter of choice in how we wish to handle them.

What about my account?
If we don't merge, nothing will change.

If we do merge, then it seems logical we merge the accounts as well. This will be a proces that may take some time, as some users will have multiple accounts across the different boards. During merger, we can automatically merge the accounts for users with the same e-mail address across the different boards. We will permit users to merge accounts even if they have different e-mails, but only on request (as we have no other way to verify they are the same person).

When two accounts are merged, the merged account will have all PM's, posts, usergroup memberships and post counts of both accounts combined. At least, that's our goal.

Will the forum be on the same platform?
Probably. Unless there is a request to change, it is easier for the webmasters to stick to the same platform.

How will my local friendly moderation team be split?
This is to be discussed with the administration and moderation of all boards, not the Webmasters although most Webmasters are also admins.
As I see it, a new forum structure would also imply a new moderator and administrator structure. Then whomever is active can be assigned and placed within this new structure.

The merger will not "delete" any usergroup and so these groups remain in place. But their permissions will have to be redefined.

I know Ulthuan have opened up a community discussion, what about Asrai?
There is this: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28962
I don't know if they plan to discuss it in more detail.

What would we call ourselves, Elves United, Malekith is the One true King?
This is to be decided by the community and/or its leadership.

Will all the historical threads be able to be brought across?
It's our duty and responsibility to preserve all that has been posted thus far. It's unclear if this will be kept on an "archive" forum or whether it will be integrated in the new forum, or kept in a separate section on the new forum. There are many options available which have to be decided by the admins and/or community.

Technically, we can ensure the preservation of all content.

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:29 pm
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Beastmaster
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yeah just smash 'em together any which way! option 2 sounds good


Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:49 pm
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Well this perfectly mimics the End Times, I say.

In practice I'm all for a merge. Merged, even with sub groupes and "homes" we still stand a stronger community. Especially the creative threads such as painting and modelling has every race's attention. I would love to see more awesome things from other elven players, as well as get more exposure on my own. Can't rejoice enough from the sound of this.

Too bad Host of the Eternity King is a tad long and possibly a bit vain. I skimmed some of the books and couldn't find a word for elves before they split into Druchii, Asur and Asrai. Nor one of the gods which doesn't favour one over the others. Soo.. what else do we have in common.. pointy ears.. megalomania.. wait, I know! Always Strikes First.. .net

Eh, just don't call it "Aelves". :)

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:54 pm
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I'm for any kind of merge - I think it is the best option to put it all into one site. It would also be nice to keep separate sections for each within that. A bigger P&M section would be great!

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Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:07 pm
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Hello,

I vote for the second option.

Regards.


Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:39 pm
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Shade
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Yes that's a great Idea! We lure them in with promises of friendship then when they least expect it BAM! Stab those traitorous elven scum in the back. Hehehe.

Or if you were serious, I vote option number two. ;)


Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:05 am
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I would prefer each of the three communities to keep its own visual look and its own forums, even if they are all hosted on the same server. I don't want to have to wade through pages of discussions about high and wood elves to get to the dark elf threads, even (maybe especially) in P&M.

If the forums do end up all mashed together, then at least let us choose which 'skin' to view the site with. Ulthuan.net and Asrai.org both have colour schemes that make my eyes hurt. Druchii.net is the only one I can stand to look at for any length of time.

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Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:22 pm
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We can offer customised skins, regardless of whether the forums are merged or not. And we'd love to give our members a free choice in the matter.

The merger of the forums, if indeed we wish to go that way, will probably spawn more questions. Let me try to address some of the questions or concerns I've come across.

What will the new forum look like? Will there still be a customised theme for each faction?
We'll definitely try to give a customised theme and look per faction. Users will be able to choose a theme of their preference.

Will our forums be merged? Will there be race specific forums?
Technically, both are possible and we can offer an easy formula to let you choose which forums you see. That way you can subscribe to see all forums for Dark Elves and all general forums, without seeing any High Elf or Wood Elf specific forums. Or you can subscribe to two factions, or all three. That is all supported by the software we're running. However, what we can not do is filter topics within the same forum. You can either see all topics within 1 forum, or none.

So, a choice needs to be made where we want to split the discussion in three distinct forums, and where we want a common forum for all factions. IE: we could make tactics race specific. Only members who subscribed to the Dark Elves will see the tactics for Dark Elves.
But if we were to merge the painting and modelling, then all within the P&M section would be visible to all members, with no filter applied.

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Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:37 pm
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The tendency is clear.

Let's move for a common host, and consider progressively some commonalities.
Looking at the posts here above and on Ulthuan,
- nobody wishes to keep forums totally separate,
- many wish to see some common parts for all Elves and some parts kept separate for each faction,
- fewer wish to see all three websites fully merged.
Having the possibility to keep the user's favorite settings is greatly apreciated.

Similar comments on Ulthuan.


After discussions, decisions can be considered:

1. Save Asrai.
The most urgent step is for webmasters to figure out how to rescue Asrai, and to do it.
There might be some need to discuss that further with Asrai admin team.

2. Migrate Ulthuan.
As it seems that our host will become the common one, it will be up to Asrai to migrate. Nothing changes for all non-webmaster users.

3. Consider some commonalities.
The appetite to get the three websites closer, but not fully merged (not yet) is clear.
There will be more opinions requested from the communities about what would be great to have in common between all Elves, and what to keep separate.
No hurry to discuss that, step 1 and 2 will necessitate probably months of work from our dear webmasters.

Once done, and when what is technically possible is made clear, then the discussion can start about what shoud be done.


Thanks all of you for providing your feelings.

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Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:02 am
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At one time I was a member of all three elven websites (although most active on this one), and to see Asrai.org go is sad but I suppose inevitable, given the number of people leaving the hobby in recent times. I'm not going to get intro a discussion of how and why this has happened - suffice it to say that I believe it's due to a number of reasons. The question now is what can be done about it. Hopefully things will get sorted out as all three of these sites have been important to me over the past 12 years or so (I joined this one first, then Ulthuan (asur.org at the time) and then Asrai. I was also a very occasional poster on a couple of others too, in particular the chaos dwarfs and VC ones.

I'm not sure that fully merging the sites would be the best option - Were that to happen, I would fear for the communities as I believe it would bring conflict between the members and the moderators - I don't know what the stats are these days, but back in the day when I was more active on here and the other sites, it was abundantly clear that the vast majority of the membership of d.net were Europeans while the vast majority of Ulthuan members were American. This led to some ideological differences of opinion over what was acceptable to post on the different sites (Us Europeans being, by nature, generally far more liberal-minded than our friends in the US). Sadly this resulted in a kind of right-wing neo-con modding agenda on Ulthuan which doesn't sit at all well with the often more inclusive views of the d.net membership. Sadly, this practice took place in the chatroom as well, resulting in some unfortunate incidents where members were kicked and/or banned for posting comments that frankly, over here, wouldn't even raise an eyebrow.

So while I would welcome any move that would secure the future of all these sites, I would want to see the moderators and their practice staying as they are, especially on the d.net part. So, assuming that all three sites end up on the same server, how much of an actual merge would there be likely to be?

Will we be seeing a situation by which d.net posts get moderated by Ulthuan mods, or vice versa, or will the individual factions remain seperate?

I guess it could still function as three distinct sites running on the same server, or you could have the three seperate forums joined in a way that members of one would have access to the others if they wished, but that the moderation of the distinct factions would be down to those associated with that particular forum - in much the same way that the various sub-forums in here are modded by different people. In other words, I wouldn't really want to see a situation in which posts on d.net forums end up getting moderated by the Ulthuan mods.

I still think that bringing the sites together is overall a positive thing, but I would not like to see the more free-spirit attitude and flavour of d.net get compromised by the mods from the other sites. If this can be made to work in a way that the end user doesn't see (or perceive) and changes to the modding practices, then I won't have any issues with this.

I'm not saying that these kind of problems are still a thing these days (I still haven't returned to the other sites - I'm only active in here and semi-active on the 9th Age site at the moment), but it certainly was a major sticking point for myself and several other d.net members back in the day, and I wouldn't want to see that sort of thing causing friction again in the future - there are so few active members left now compared with a decade ago, that we surely can't afford to drive any more away.

I'm sure it won't come to that, but I just believe that it's worth a mention, that's all.

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Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:00 am
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I'd just like to say that I agree 100% with DP. To the surprise of absolutely nobody, I'm sure. She articulated my own worries better than I could have. Or at least more diplomatically.

I would strongly favour the forums remaining as separate as is feasible, each community with their own mod team. And anybody who is given the authority to mod forums outside their own community needs to be very carefully vetted.

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Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:40 am
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Can I just say that the efforts of everyone involved in protecting and unifying the content of the three sites is immense and immensely appreciated.

Salute to you all, you're doing the Laughing God's work boys and girls, respect!

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Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:38 pm
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DP is alive???? Anyways to your concerns Dark Princess, things are not like they used to be. Activity has died across all the forums, everything has mellowed out and there aren't many differences anymore. I'm of the idea that a merger would add to activity especially in some of the less visited areas of the sites.

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Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:51 pm
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Loki wrote:
DP is alive???? Anyways to your concerns Dark Princess, things are not like they used to be. Activity has died across all the forums, everything has mellowed out and there aren't many differences anymore. I'm of the idea that a merger would add to activity especially in some of the less visited areas of the sites.


Oh yes my old friend - I'm back :twisted:

Just when you thought it was safe to go back on the forums, I'm here to stir things up all over again Mwhahaha :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I would welcome anything that improves the activity on this site and ensures its longevity, but I do fear a return to some of the ideological conflicts that plagued (mainly Ulthuan) in the past. As long as everybody stays friendly and the old Ulthuan mods don't start imposing their own sensibilities in the Druchii forums, then I'm OK with it.

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Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:50 pm
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It sounds like the culture of Ulthuan was very different in those days. The current mod team is two Australians, two British, one Croatian, one Dutch, one Czech. We have members from all over, though a bias towards English-speaking countries I guess. If anything I'd say Asrai has been the most American site of late (I play Wood Elves and post there) and a pretty decent place.

It's a fair point though, there will be differences between the sites and how the mod teams work and the memberships interact would need some thought and discussion.


Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:03 pm
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Darkprincess wrote:

Oh yes my old friend - I'm back :twisted:

Just when you thought it was safe to go back on the forums, I'm here to stir things up all over again Mwhahaha :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I would welcome anything that improves the activity on this site and ensures its longevity, but I do fear a return to some of the ideological conflicts that plagued (mainly Ulthuan) in the past. As long as everybody stays friendly and the old Ulthuan mods don't start imposing their own sensibilities in the Druchii forums, then I'm OK with it.


Well it's good to have you back, though I'm sad to say I believe the chat is pretty much dead. But Rork is still about and kicking it.

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Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:36 pm
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Anyway there is no plan to merge anything any soon.
That will take months, polls will ask opinions, and presumably it will start with P&M which afficionados mentioned frequently such desire.

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Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:55 pm
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