How many sorceresses against dwarves?

Kheirakh · Post by **Kheirakh** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:49 pm

Hi!

How many sorceresses should there be against dwarves in a 2k game? I just thought those nasty dark magic spells that prevent shooting could be handy against those pesky stunties.. And of course doombolt and black horror are good (exspecially black horror, because it can kill stunty warriors with ease..).

How many DDs an average dwarf army can have, and what is the max. number of DD they can have in 2k game?

I haven't thought of the rest of the army, but it could have fast things, like DRs, CoKs, a war hydra, flyers..

Also some shooting: RBTs, shades

And a couple of ranked units: warriors, corsaris (?), even witch elves (??), maybe execs?

Cenyu · Post by **Cenyu** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:11 pm

Dwarfs have 4 basic dispel dice. Runesmiths add 1 dice, Runelords add 2 (and another 1 if they have an Anvil of Doom). They have access to the Master Rune of Balance which steals one enemy power dice and adds it to the Dwarfs' dispel dice (costs a normal hero's whole item allowance, though and can only be taken once). In addition they can give magic resistance to units via magic banners or characters. There are Runes which function like scrolls and an improved Master version of those which can destroy an enemy spell for the casting mage on 4+.

Yes, Dwarfs can build up a pretty scary defense against magic but it costs them also a fair amount of points. I think most Dwarfs favor a more balanced approach with one or two Runesmiths (or a Runelord).

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:14 pm

How about none.

Invest the points in more Dwarf-killers.

Otherwise, with 4 - 7 dispell dice you will need a surplus of 2 or 3 power dice.

He needs to dispell only the spells that go off, but may need to more than you used to cast for the important ones.

More spellcasters will increase the chances of getting the right spells.

you can get into rock/paper/scissors i your opponet can expect magic heavy.

Post by **Vorchild** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:36 pm

Taking none is kind of cheesy if you ask me - its specifically tailoring your list to beat up on a specific opponent. Well, maybe not cheesy, but certainly not sporting.

I find that the most optimal way to do things would be to use 2 L2s and give one the cloak and the other the wand to give you 7 dice and a bound item. That means 2 chillwinds (or the magic missile from death), one doombolt, and something else on 3 dice (which is to say, effectively 4 sure castings) each turn, which is a solid magic phase to say the least. If he's taking more than one runesmith or a runelord or something else, then he's already spending more than you on magic (defence), so it'd be a wash if he happens to do so.

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:52 pm

What do you mean cheesy. I had no magic users in my last league army and the League Army I'm testing has none either. IIt's intended to fight all-comers. I must use my 3DD VERy carefully.

Malekith's psychologist · Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:20 pm

With dwarfs (if specifically playing against them, not talking tourneys here), IMO you should either go no magic at all, therefore making his runesmiths pretty useless, or full monty. If you only get something like 2 L2 sorceress his 4 basic DD, plus runesmiths/anvil/magic resistance runes/etc, will be more tahn enough to make them useless. And he basically has no magic so your DD make no difference.

On the other hand 4 sorceresses could be enough to get those spells through, specially if you get the WoK and force him to use his DD.

Still getting to dwarfs with magic is a risky business as you loose the punch your heroes will give against those tough stunties...

- human · Post by **- human** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:16 pm

You need at least 2 level 2s, or a level 4 if you want to use a magic phase. Going with no magic is indeed kind of unsportsmanlike. You won't get much through, so don't even bother bringing a single level 2. Medium magic can work well, thanes are so useful that they usually won't max out on runelords.

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:29 pm

I'm sorry Human, but what's so wrong with no magic in your army? How can that be nonsporting? Magic isn't compulsory. All of my armies have been magic-light, even my VC.

Tailoring your army in to extreme a fashion can be unsporting. It may be that I am not unbiased, but AFAIAC, little is unsporting when fighting a army that might include Thorek.

If you want to be really sporting, build a standard tournament list and go with it, or promise to yourself to use the same army against the next two non-dwarf opponents.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:37 pm

I dont think that it is unsportsmanship to not have any magic just so you have more points to pend on other things either. I usually go low magic most of the time anyway with only a lvl2 and a Dark Emissary on the days I want to use alot of magic.

Against dwarfs I would take no magic its realy just a wast of points that could be spnt elsewhere.

Harabec · Post by **Harabec** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:06 am

I almost always take some level of magic, even if I know my opponent, so its not a personal concern. But I don't think it is unsporting to take no magic. You can bet the dwarf player would be taking as much as he can to remove DE strengths so why would it be unfair to do the same for his.

Seanzala · Post by **Seanzala** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:21 am

Either none or lots. And no, there is nothing unsporting about an army without magic. Taking two Lvl 2's or even a Lvl 4 and a Lvl 2 is not worth it. If you want to have effective magic against them you need to take at least a Lvl 4 and 2 Lvl 2's, with purely offensive magic items. To be really effective, take a Dark Emmisary on top. For I think 780pts you can get 14 PD and not take any magic items. Take the Darkstar cloak on the High Sorc to make her even better, and spend 800pts on 15 PD. Then make a list around it and your set.

Sean

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:30 am

From the other side, is there any doubt that your opponent will be fielding the troops and runes necessary to beat Druchii or will he be using a standard tournament army?

Crazy_elf_lady · Post by **Crazy_elf_lady** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:59 pm

I've tried both methods to besting Dwarfs. Sadly, none have worked and I've never won a single game against the new Dwarf army book. I've run with no magic, and I've tried plenty of magic. The real problem is a Dwarf player can spend 145 points towards anti-magic. This will grant him with 6 dispel dice, a dispel scroll, and take one of your power dice away. In order to have enough power dice to overcome all that, you need to spend many more points. There's also the issue where any character or unit with a standard can get MR1 for 15 points... t.t

Power stones can be a great investment vs Dwarfs though. As you need no scrolls, load up on stones. I once took a scouting high sorc with 3 stones, and she dropped all sorts of wicked magic from the first turn on.

Post by **Vorchild** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:07 pm

Opera of Death wrote:What do you mean cheesy. I had no magic users in my last league army and the League Army I'm testing has none either. IIt's intended to fight all-comers. I must use my 3DD VERy carefully.

If its what you always do, then no, of course its not cheesy, but if you're known like many people are to take at least a couple magic users a game and then all of a sudden you know you're facing dwarfs that can't have them and you take none, then yeah, its not exactly sporting is it?

What you can consider doing is let your opponent know ahead of time that you aren't planning on bringing any magic and then they don't have to waste points on anti-magic and can enjoy the same sort of benefits. If all you're doing is looking for an advantage that wouldn't normally be there (having upwards of 400 extra points to spend) then that's not exactly fair and not exactly sporting. If all you do is want that advantage and want to win, there are easier ways to do it. City Guard and 8 bolt throwers will ruin anyone's day.

Tailoring your army in to extreme a fashion can be unsporting. It may be that I am not unbiased, but AFAIAC, little is unsporting when fighting a army that might include Thorek.

Just because an army CAN include some stupidly ridiculous character doesn't mean you should prepare for it at every turn though.

Opera of death · Post by **Opera of death** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:57 am

Well, if my opponent will agree not to use Thorek, I'll agree to be a LOT more sporting. Have faced two Dwarf armies with Thorek, I;m feeling very jaundiced.

In my experience, everyone who is not undead goes no-magic or magic heavy when they play one-off against Dwarfs and the Dwarfs know this.

I almost never play one-off games. I'm always trying learning new armies or practicing my tactics. I don't play enough to be able to waste the experience opportunity.

Kheirakh · Post by **Kheirakh** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:40 pm

Thanks for the answers! I'll probably go with two lvl 2 sorceresses with the wand and cloaks and stones, and try to eat those runesmiths early in the game, so that I get some spells off..

Duke daedric · Post by **Duke daedric** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:31 pm

Good luck my friend, because you will NEED it....