How to deal with the Necrobunker?

[Tenebrae]

How do you generally deal wilh the necrobunker?
Chariots in the sides, or?

[Raneth]

Zombies or Skellies?

[Opera of death]

Necros are comparatively easy to kill if you hit the unit and allocate as many attacks as possible to the necromancer. With no champion you cannot be challenged and you can usually get three figures in contact. I solved this problem recently woth a Noble on a DP, but three DR might do the job too. Charging. spears, and the mounts gives six attacks and te mobility to get there.

[Tenebrae]

Zombies I expect.

And if only I can allocate hits on the necros there's no reason to worry.
However, I fully expect a (strong) unit of skeletons about 2 mm in front of the front rank of the bunker. Remember that 5 out of 6 necromancy spells don't require LOS.

[Seanzala]

Err, call me stupid but I've never heard the term neccrobunker berfore... Could someone please explain? I'm sure I've come accross it before, just didn't know the term...

Sean

[Manaurith]

Necromancer in a unit of skeletons ore zombi. usually 20 -30 in sise.

but so you know you can´t get 3 mounted models in contact with 0ne caracter model on foot on a 20 mm base only 2 so you will only get 2 attacks from riders and 2 from mounts.

[Darkweaver]

Any good VC general will have the necro in the inner 3 people, So you can't clip him from the front.

SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS

SNNNS

Should he leave enough space in front of his unit and the unit in front of him you can drop in some harpies, might work. But again, I hate to rely on someone elses poor generalship..........

[Shadow dark]

doubt harpies will work, as they have to take a fear test on leadership 6.

[Vorchild]

Necros are comparatively easy to kill if you hit the unit and allocate as many attacks as possible to the necromancer. With no champion you cannot be challenged and you can usually get three figures in contact. I solved this problem recently woth a Noble on a DP, but three DR might do the job too. Charging. spears, and the mounts gives six attacks and te mobility to get there.

Exactly. Kill the necro and its just a bunker. DR are likely the best way since you can get him by turn 2, but you only get 4 attacks (2 are 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound though) but you've still got pretty fair odds in the end. Another quick way to do things that has potentially less impact is to use the chariot - you might even with the combat. Its slightly cheaper that the Dr unit, doesn't have to take a fear check (although stupidity doesn't make it any better odds-wise) and you actually have a better chance of killing the necro - and you might stay in combat in the end and hold up the block - you never know.

[Ehakir]

use a noble on dark steed, with support of a unit DR's. 3 at. with st 6 (lance), one with st 4, and two with st. 3. Should work

[Dyvim tvar]

Throw a unit of cold-one knights at it. Their high WS and S can easily take down your basic necromancer. Throw in a noble for good measure.

I personally think multiple necros in one unit are a bad idea. Much better to spread it around a bit more so you can't lose them all in one go.

[Haplo]

I don't think you guys understand the problem here. The unit containing the necros is directly behind the unit infront so there is no way to engage the unit in the front and get to the necros. If you get a flank charge on the unit you will be stuck with no necros to engage and open for a magic counter charge next turn. The only real solution I find is to smash through the unit infront(chariots is proberly your only chance). Or try to disrupt the compact VC formation by engaging from several directions.

[Dyvim tvar]

What kind of unit is the guy putting in front?

A charge by multiple chariots could certainly do the job -- smash through the front unit and overrun into the "bunker". The only problem is that you cannot allocate impact hits to the necros.

[Tenebrae]

The unit in front tends to be his big skeleton unit, as is traditional.

[Joey_boy]

Normaly a necrobunker is a zombie unit with two other units infront. Normaly skellies, and with a Vamp count in one of the units to make sure you keep things honest.

Normaly I try to slam 2 chariots in the unit not housing the vamp and try to flank the first unit with some DR and send a Noble in against the bunker to alow me another combat round with the chariots. No doubt its a hard unit to get at. Also any big monster flanking the bunker will keep your opponent scared while you engage his skellies making him splitt his invocations.

[Vorchild]

Stacked infantry you say? Personally, I think that's incredibly to your advantage - means he's got almost 400 pts of unit (if he starts them out large) guarding a 100 pts magic user who can't use any magic missiles (which seriously hurt - more than another unit of zombies someplace). And they're going to be stacked one behind the other effectively so they'll have very little impact on gameplay aside from the magic phase (and then really only to cast one invocation per necro in the unit). If he's got all the necros in there, then just smash and grab effectively, but I can't anyone lumping half their army up like that - its just silly and you just go and occupy the other side of the table instead.

But, what's the rest of the list like? I think in a situation like this, you need to be more global in your solution. In the case I have in my mind, that's a quarter of the army in those two units and they're crummy units at that with one spell per turn. If he's doing the same thing for 3 other necros, well, that's the entire army right there in 4 nice sets of infantry blocks you simply walk up to and massacre one at a time. If he's bulking them all up in one place, well, necromancy doesn't have the most fabulous range in the world. Consider sending something over top and hitting him in the rear and then butchering the rest of the army.

As a general solution then though, I'd send something in to pin the first unit, which in turn effectively pins the one behind it (which is why that deployment is so silly). You can send 150 odd pts of COK into the first to accomplish that goal. You'll almost always take down the 4 you need to stick around. Its a fair trade too and you just end up chewing through the unit after a long while. When its pinned, you send something around and hit the unit behind to take out the necros in the front or else take out the unit with flank charges - either way works.

[Dark Alliance]

If you were designing a list to face a well constructed Necro' list then you would be highly mobile, magic heavy, missile heavy and most likely run one, maybe two Hydras.

Morathi would be a good choice, picking her spells and opting for Black Horror, Soulstealer, Dominion +1 other (whatever floats yer boat). Massed missile fire is better than trying to beat 'em in combat only to find your troops bogged down in combat, and the Hydra is perfect for destroying Zombies in droves.

The ability of the Hydra to run through woods now, plus it's march and breathe makes it an enormous threat to Necrobunkers!

[Tenebrae]

I agree, the hydra does sound very nice.

Morathi however, is entirely out, as we play 1000 points.

I was thinking of using a Northern Watchtower list against it, actually, to maximize mobility.

Usually two necros in the bunker, and I know he likes large units of BKs.

[Ehakir]

Why don't you place a Noble on pegasus on a hill, and charge the 2nd unit containing the Necromancer? (DONT ask for a challenge, he will go to the rear rank)

[Darkweaver]

Stacked infantry you say? Personally, I think that's incredibly to your advantage - means he's got almost 400 pts of unit (if he starts them out large)

.

Actually the cost is only 215 for a unit of 20 with full command. The bunker consist of 10 to 15 models for another 100-150. The bunker is "NOT" ment to get into combat, unless its time to mop up.

guarding a 100 pts magic user who can't use any magic missiles (which seriously hurt

Here your thinking like a Druchii. His necros are to support his skellies into combat. IoN, Van Hels, helish vig.

more than another unit of zombies someplace). And they're going to be stacked one behind the other effectively so they'll have very little impact on gameplay aside from the magic phase (and then really only to cast one invocation per necro in the unit). If he's got all the necros in there, then just smash and grab effectively, but I can't anyone lumping half their army up like that - its just silly and you just go and occupy the other side of the table instead.

But, what's the rest of the list like? I think in a situation like this, you need to be more global in your solution. In the case I have in my mind, that's a quarter of the army in those two units and they're crummy units at that with one spell per turn. If he's doing the same thing for 3 other necros, well, that's the entire army right there in 4 nice sets of infantry blocks you simply walk up to and massacre one at a time. If he's bulking them all up in one place, well, necromancy doesn't have the most fabulous range in the world. Consider sending something over top and hitting him in the rear and then butchering the rest of the army.

As a general solution then though, I'd send something in to pin the first unit, which in turn effectively pins the one behind it (which is why that deployment is so silly).

Which is what the VC general wants. He prepared to go for attrition. Next thing you know is you have units of zombies/skellies popping up on your flank/rear of your "pinnning unit". Watch of for a Thrall or Wight Lord being in one of the front units of skeletons. He would do a number on your CoK's with a GW/Wight blade. KB on a 5-6.

You can send 150 odd pts of COK into the first to accomplish that goal. You'll almost always take down the 4 you need to stick around.

You hope. Cause if you don't and you lose. You autobrake and are run down.

Its a fair trade too and you just end up chewing through the unit after a long while. When its pinned, you send something around and hit the unit behind to take out the necros in the front or else take out the unit with flank charges - either way works.

Your assuming he has no flankers himself. I like to have units of ghouls,direwolfs, and a unit of BK's on my flanks. Both of them.

But it is hard to come up with a strategy to deal with a single unit without having the whole picture. Usually every unit is working with others together. You just can't deal with one unit (or try to) without dealing with the support units too.

[Darkweaver]

Why don't you place a Noble on pegasus on a hill, and charge the 2nd unit containing the Necromancer? (DONT ask for a challenge, he will go to the rear rank)

And where would you "charge" the unit? Front? Can't complete charge. Side? Rear? Your not hitting the necro. Does nothing but lose your Noble.

[Manaurith]

You can send 150 odd pts of COK into the first to accomplish that goal. You'll almost always take down the 4 you need to stick around.

You hope. Cause if you don't and you lose. You autobrake and are run down.

COK are fear causers them selves so tehy only autobrake from terror causers. I lowe this fact. as COK can stick to unded and autobrake other armyes

[Darkweaver]

Duh!! Slipped my mind.....

[Vorchild]

Stacked infantry you say? Personally, I think that's incredibly to your advantage - means he's got almost 400 pts of unit (if he starts them out large)

.

Actually the cost is only 215 for a unit of 20 with full command. The bunker consist of 10 to 15 models for another 100-150. The bunker is "NOT" ment to get into combat, unless its time to mop up.

If that's the case, them its a relatively simple matter of sending a unit of DR around and hitting the flank or just shooting the thing to peices. Couple turns with a couple RBTs and maybe RXBmen on a hill will turn that thing into paste. The point still remains, whether its 365 pts or somewhat closer to 400 (some people use units of 25) that its a silly kind of investment to make.

guarding a 100 pts magic user who can't use any magic missiles (which seriously hurt

Here your thinking like a Druchii. His necros are to support his skellies into combat. IoN, Van Hels, helish vig.

Is there any other way? I'm trying to think about what hurts the things that have the easiest time going after undead units. In the end its also a numbers game. He's got two spells, one of which you know is invocation and if the other happens to be useless, then bonus to you. I was just commenting of how silly it is to me to use a necrobunker like that in the first place.

more than another unit of zombies someplace). And they're going to be stacked one behind the other effectively so they'll have very little impact on gameplay aside from the magic phase (and then really only to cast one invocation per necro in the unit). If he's got all the necros in there, then just smash and grab effectively, but I can't anyone lumping half their army up like that - its just silly and you just go and occupy the other side of the table instead.

But, what's the rest of the list like? I think in a situation like this, you need to be more global in your solution. In the case I have in my mind, that's a quarter of the army in those two units and they're crummy units at that with one spell per turn. If he's doing the same thing for 3 other necros, well, that's the entire army right there in 4 nice sets of infantry blocks you simply walk up to and massacre one at a time. If he's bulking them all up in one place, well, necromancy doesn't have the most fabulous range in the world. Consider sending something over top and hitting him in the rear and then butchering the rest of the army.

As a general solution then though, I'd send something in to pin the first unit, which in turn effectively pins the one behind it (which is why that deployment is so silly).

Which is what the VC general wants. He prepared to go for attrition. Next thing you know is you have units of zombies/skellies popping up on your flank/rear of your "pinnning unit". Watch of for a Thrall or Wight Lord being in one of the front units of skeletons. He would do a number on your CoK's with a GW/Wight blade. KB on a 5-6.

Actually, as a VC general, I'm never interested about a fair points fight - it just rarely makes sense since you continually lose. Its not bad, but it doesn't win you games - you just lose them more slowly. Eventually, they're able to hunt the general down and take him out and then everything crumbles. The thrall in the front unit tells me two things. 1, the army isn't totally heavy magic or else there's a necro leading the army - and that's good since its fairly easy to kill them given the chance. It also tells me that there are now tons of points invested in these units that I can effectively avoid if I need to. I've yet to see someone take a wight lord on foot in a unit of zombies or skellies though - that would be something new. If the guy wants to spend points raising units behind COK, well, he can go for it. All you really need is to have them pinned for the one turn to get around and if he's smart, he'll be sending the raised units to block the real threat. A small unit of COK is completely expendable.

You can send 150 odd pts of COK into the first to accomplish that goal. You'll almost always take down the 4 you need to stick around.

You hope. Cause if you don't and you lose. You autobrake and are run down.

They cause fear and are at Ld9, so they shouldn't be going anyplace for a while at least. Lets assume you've even got full command, for argument sake. Charging in that 6 attacks, 4 hits, and say 4 unsaved wounds from the knights on average. 5 cold ones, say 2 wounds, 1 saved (lower than the odds) for 5 wounds total so you win by 1. Even without the banner, you'll still tie and stick and he'll lose a rank hopefully for next time (depending on how beefed up the unit is).

Its a fair trade too and you just end up chewing through the unit after a long while. When its pinned, you send something around and hit the unit behind to take out the necros in the front or else take out the unit with flank charges - either way works.

Your assuming he has no flankers himself. I like to have units of ghouls,direwolfs, and a unit of BK's on my flanks. Both of them.

Well, those are normally easy target for a DE army, and we're talking about 500 odd points of infantry sitting up against 150 pts of COK at the moment since the infantry is stacked - I'd say I have the spare points to go beat down the flankers at the same time. That being said, you've perfectly illustrated the point I was making before about wanting to know more details.

Keep in mind though, that with 2 necros in the bunker, a thrall in the front, that's 700 pts right there, and with those flankers on either side of the stacked infantry, well, that's pretty much your entire army. All packed nicely together to protect a couple necros. That's always good tactical news for me. If they're not bunched up, then holding up the first unit still works since no flank charge is immediately possible.

[Darkweaver]

Well, Vorchild. If you think a necro bunker is silly, may I ask where you place your necros?

Sent you a PM with my answer. V.