The Mobile Gun Line

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Vorchild
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The Mobile Gun Line

Post by Vorchild »

I played in a tournament this weekend and had my army called a gun line because of all the shooting and such, but at the same time, it really isn't a static gun line since it actually quite, well, mobile. ;) I thought about this some more and realised that my 2K list (the tournament was 1.5K) is very similar and while I was using it I got the same sort of comments. Both of these lists have proved to be very effective, especially in tournament situations.

The list works like this:

2 level 2 wizards
2+ units of DR with RXBs
1+ unit of RXBmen
2 RBTs

And add in some combat units for balance. I've been using 3 chariots and some corsairs for flanking and static res in the 2K army.

This setup gives you a great deal of firepower as well as a great deal of mobility - especially with the DR and chariots (and possibly small units of COK or any monsters really). Very little has to sit back to be effective, while at the same time, much of the army can wait for the enemy to come to them.

For magic, I say 2 level 2s rather than a level 4 because really, you want to get that default spell twice. You also want to include the cloak on one of the wizards for the 7th power die. That means that using say, death, you get two castings of the small magic missile and then one casting on 3 dice of something else that you've got - and you'll almost always cast these spells too. Add in the wand and you're going to end up with 4 successful castings each turn, of which 3 are sure to do some damage and maybe the 4th as well. Assuming you get the large magic missile too and are using death, that's 4D6 S4 hits + D6 S5 hits at various targets. In order to have a chance to successfully dispel all those spells with relative certainty, you need to have 12 dispel dice, which is just never going to happen in most cases.

After that, you get your regular shooting. Assuming 3 units DR and a single unit of 10 RXBmen, that's 50 S3 shots and then the contributions of the RBTs (and maybe some shades too)

Each set alone is solid, but both of them together is seriously strong and combined with the mobility of the army, it means you can really pick what to shoot up while threatening the rest to stay back and take it or else take a big risk with your hard hitters.

So, it really ends up being a bit of a gun line when you get right down to it, but maybe even worse with its way of easily being able to select its targets and range not being as big an issue.

And personally, I can't think of another army that can do it all as well as DE. Its not really a cheesy sort of army, but the play style can be seriously harsh.

Has anyone else had similar success with these types of armies or have something to add?
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Re: The Mobile Gun Line

Post by Undeadcatd »

Vorchild wrote:I played in a tournament this weekend and had my army called a gun line because of all the shooting and such, but at the same time, it really isn't a static gun line since it actually quite, well, mobile. ;) I thought about this some more and realised that my 2K list (the tournament was 1.5K) is very similar and while I was using it I got the same sort of comments. Both of these lists have proved to be very effective, especially in tournament situations.

The list works like this:

2 level 2 wizards
2+ units of DR with RXBs
1+ unit of RXBmen
2 RBTs

And add in some combat units for balance. I've been using 3 chariots and some corsairs for flanking and static res in the 2K army.

This setup gives you a great deal of firepower as well as a great deal of mobility - especially with the DR and chariots (and possibly small units of COK or any monsters really). Very little has to sit back to be effective, while at the same time, much of the army can wait for the enemy to come to them.

For magic, I say 2 level 2s rather than a level 4 because really, you want to get that default spell twice. You also want to include the cloak on one of the wizards for the 7th power die. That means that using say, death, you get two castings of the small magic missile and then one casting on 3 dice of something else that you've got - and you'll almost always cast these spells too. Add in the wand and you're going to end up with 4 successful castings each turn, of which 3 are sure to do some damage and maybe the 4th as well. Assuming you get the large magic missile too and are using death, that's 4D6 S4 hits + D6 S5 hits at various targets. In order to have a chance to successfully dispel all those spells with relative certainty, you need to have 12 dispel dice, which is just never going to happen in most cases.

After that, you get your regular shooting. Assuming 3 units DR and a single unit of 10 RXBmen, that's 50 S3 shots and then the contributions of the RBTs (and maybe some shades too)

Each set alone is solid, but both of them together is seriously strong and combined with the mobility of the army, it means you can really pick what to shoot up while threatening the rest to stay back and take it or else take a big risk with your hard hitters.

So, it really ends up being a bit of a gun line when you get right down to it, but maybe even worse with its way of easily being able to select its targets and range not being as big an issue.

And personally, I can't think of another army that can do it all as well as DE. Its not really a cheesy sort of army, but the play style can be seriously harsh.

Has anyone else had similar success with these types of armies or have something to add?


it's exactly the list I am trying :D
my 2000 pt list

Dragon lord with doom stick
2 level 2(1 with steed) DSC , SOG , scrolls
2 units of DR with RXB , M
15 RXB warrior with shield , standard , M : deploy 5/5/5 or 8/7
2 chariots
5 harpy , 5 shade
3 RBT

so I got 60 s3 shooting and 3 RBT , 7 PD with a wand , and a small battle center

Dragon : offer both combat and shooting ability and the most important thing : THREAT

Magic : death is a strong lore while dark had the best ability against another gunline enemy.

Combat : a rank up unit with 2 COC backing up , the old "bait and flee" tactic works very well because the threat of RBT and dragon , but I need to weaken the enemy with shooting
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Post by Sulla »

I like the list. I'm using something similar. Add in a dragon and some CoK and drop out the rbt's (I hate tomb scorpions) and you've got my current 2K list.
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Post by - human »

Very cool, I like the idea. Congrats on the tourney outcome, btw.

Do the corsairs work particularly well with this set-up or were you just desperate to use some sweet models? ;)
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Post by Raneth »

Excellent list. My latest 1.5K list is based on shooting bait as well (you summed them up quite nicely) but I haven't included Sorcs yet, chose Nobles to deal with issues and save me some points. In my 2K list, I've opted for a Lv4 because of the sheer shock value and the diversity of spells.

I guess you will, like me, experience some difficulties against shooty armies: everything in your list combos very well but is quite vulnerable to missile fire. I'd drop a CoC and swap the Corsairs for Exes, but I figure that's a matter of taste and guts :D
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Post by Seanzala »

How about this one:

Sorceress w/ Darkstar Cloak, Tome of Furion

Sorceress w/ Wand of Kharaidon

10x Crossbows w/ Shields

10x Crossbows w/ Shields

5x Dark Riders w/ Crossbows, Musician

5x Dark Riders w/ Crossbows, Musician

15x Warriors w/ Shields

15x Warriors w/ Shields

Cold One Chariot w/ Spears

5x Shades

5x Harpies

2x RBT's

1501pts in total, so slightly over but meh. 7PD + Wand with a potential 70 S3 shots per turn and the 2 RBTs.

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Post by Tenebrae »

@Vorchild: what Lore(s) do you use with it? Death? Dark?
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Post by - human »

How about this one:

Sorceress w/ Darkstar Cloak, Tome of Furion

Sorceress w/ Wand of Kharaidon

10x Crossbows w/ Shields

10x Crossbows w/ Shields

5x Dark Riders w/ Crossbows, Musician

5x Dark Riders w/ Crossbows, Musician

15x Warriors w/ Shields

15x Warriors w/ Shields

Cold One Chariot w/ Spears

5x Shades

5x Harpies

2x RBT's

1501pts in total, so slightly over but meh. 7PD + Wand with a potential 70 S3 shots per turn and the 2 RBTs.

SZ


That's a good variant list, but I think at least a scroll is needed, and the 2 units of 15 warriors don't add much besides a meat shield. For the cost of those units you can get a chariot that will outperform them by far... Which is why I think Vorchild did so well. A Ld9 general is key too.
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Post by Lakissov »

well, to make it a really maneuvrable gunline i'd rather have a hydra instead of the RBT. it indeed can provide quite some good shooting, too. and instead of the rxb warriors, some more dark riders.
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Post by Vorchild »

- Human wrote:Do the corsairs work particularly well with this set-up or were you just desperate to use some sweet models? ;)


Depending on the army setup, if you have the special slots, I'd certainly say that the ideal is likely executioners instead, but comp-wise you tend to get a better rating using more core troops and infantry in general. I take corsairs because they are sweeter models, warriors have a more difficult time being use offensively (against say ogres that you need to charge or have them charge you, I think I'd rather have corsairs than warriors - if you're good enough, it doesn't matter, but I'm not nearly that good ;) ), and I just really dislike warriors - just a personal thing that has something to do with the stupid colour scheme I have for painting them.

To be honest, when I've used corsairs, its normally only as the occasional rank bonus assist to a chariot charge (and even then, it doesn't happen often since people will just flee from that stuff) and more often than not they just sit around holding a table quarter or dissuading small stuff - something just about anything else can do in their place.

I guess you will, like me, experience some difficulties against shooty armies: everything in your list combos very well but is quite vulnerable to missile fire.


It depends, really, since in most cases you're never going to get away from the elven vulnerability to missile fire. The chariots help and it also helps that some of the more dangerous shooting stuff either has poor Ld (jezzails) and can be panicked of by a RBT salvo or has semi-poor range that you can stay out of and then move into to strike with your own missiles. You have to remember that this army can also just sit back and shoot with little ill effects. Pound for pound, Druchii shooting is quite good. The only problem that comes into it are cannons and the like for the chariots, but you can compose different lists in the same style that don't have that vulnerability.

@Vorchild: what Lore(s) do you use with it? Death? Dark?


I vary things based on the opponent, but most often is death in order to get the higher strength missiles. Sometimes dark is good even if you want the better missiles, if only to gamble on getting another doombolt spell. I played one game where both sorcs got chillwind and doombolt and in one magic phase I was able to cast all 4 spells plus the additional bound doombolt. Any casting phase where you can get 5 spells off is just nuts, so there's merit in using dark anyways.

well, to make it a really maneuvrable gunline i'd rather have a hydra instead of the RBT. it indeed can provide quite some good shooting, too. and instead of the rxb warriors, some more dark riders.


Well, there are two points to make here. One is that using RBTs means you really can stay back and shoot against a variety of armies, giving the whole thing tactical diversity. Hydras are nice, don't get me wrong, but they have short range. If I have to trade shots between 2 bolt throwers and a cannon, say (common for dwarfs) with 2 RBTs, I'm fine with that since generally, I'll win out in that battle. The second point to make is that though RXBmen are less tactically diverse, they really help in the tactical deployment of RBTs. See, RBTs are quite possibly the best bait unit available. Easy to kill and lots of points makes them a great target for an opposing player, and combine with how deadly they can be, they end up being a prime target. So, you can put them in places you want an opponent to get sucked into. But you can't make it too isolated and you can't leave them completely undefended, which is where the RXBmen come in. With those guys, you can help fire as they come in, they become an excellent threat to the oncoming unit's flank, and they are generally a safe place to put a wizard. DR units work very well too, but its best not to use another easy target unit to guard one, despite how awesome they are. In a tournament, you also want to work on your soft scores in order to pull away the big win overall, so you need to work on comp. At least you do in this part of the world. DR are a more risky unit. For cheaper, you can get something that's less tactically versatile in the end, but which is stronger and more suited to the means you wish to accomplish.
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Post by Opera of death »

The Druchii 'gunline' hardly compares to hard-core gunlines, but my own 2000 point army has 76 rxb shots per turn and has proven capable of whittling away Orgres and Slayers and fighting it out with Empire missile troops. So far it has made no impression on Dwarfs.
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Post by Sulla »

Vorchild wrote: If I have to trade shots between 2 bolt throwers and a cannon, say (common for dwarfs) with 2 RBTs, I'm fine with that since generally, I'll win out in that battle.


Do you usually only face one cannon? If I play dorvz I always take 2. They allow me to win most artillery duels by turn 2 usually thanks to 4 man crews and that unerring cannon accuracy. Plus, when playing DE I have to admit, i am a new convert to the 0 RBT camp and haven't missed them since dropping them from my list. All that only hitting half the time at long range while my opponents skull chucker or cannon was much more accurate and more damaging really got to me. I'd rather more DR or another squad of shades.

Also, don't forget that the hydra's spere of influence is now 12" in diameter with a flame template on top of that. (Not that I am a fan of the Hydra; I'd rather another pair of chariots)
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Post by Vorchild »

Also, don't forget that the hydra's spere of influence is now 12" in diameter with a flame template on top of that. (Not that I am a fan of the Hydra; I'd rather another pair of chariots)


I haven't forgotten, but its not like you can really just walk up to a unit right in front of you and breath fire all over them. You're not likely to cause as much damage as you want to the unit and you're likely to lose your hydra if you do that. To compensate for the safety of the model, you have to move it in a more defensive pattern which will effectively decrease the comparative range.

Do you usually only face one cannon?


Around here a cannon and 2 bolt throwers is the common setup, so yeah, I normally only face one, but 2 cannons and no bolt throwers is about the same. In the end though, its going to take the cannons a couple turns before they're going to find the range and do damage to the machine. Unfortunately, yes, you do need a bit of luck to kill that cannon crew with shooting before they bust you. If its looks like its going bad though, you can just move the RBTs out of sight (behind the hill, say).
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Post by Dark Alliance »

@ Vorchild: I use a similar set up but I have upped my rxb unit from 10 to 15, occasionally dding in a standard and musician.

I have found this to be a really versatile and effective, multi-role unit. The new rules allowing all ranks to fire in certain circumstances really helps considering all the large targets on the tabletop these days.
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Post by Benji »

i've had some success with 2 units of 15 x-bows with full cmd 2 x 10 with just shields, 2x 5 dark riders, 2 bolters, 4 chariots, dragon and 2 lv2's it's very manouverable on the attack and backed up by alot of shooting. if you get both magic misssiles on both mages it's horrible. if your feeling really cheeky you can go for dark hand on 1 dace from each mage. if your opponent wants it stopped it needs 2 dispel dice. then you have 5 left to throw at bigger spells.

i also had alot of suces with using a hydra and 2 more units of dark riders instead of the 2x15 x-bows. the hydra is very manouverable and fits in well with the army.
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Post by Dggrj »

seanzala wrote:How about this one:

Sorceress w/ Darkstar Cloak, Tome of Furion

Sorceress w/ Wand of Kharaidon


Unless I'm mistaken (totally happens) isn't this disallowed, as both the cloak and tome are arcane items? I'd love it if we could, but without sharing power dice I feel the tome has lost its purpose in 7th edition.
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Post by Venkh »

My current 2k list has

3 level2's - 3 scrolls, tof, dsc all death magic, all the time!
2x5 rxb dark riders
2x8 shades
5 harpies
3 reapers.

That leaves me with 700 odd points to spend on combat units

I have recently started using shades in place of crossbow warriors, they are just so much more maneoverable. They also do a better job of protecting my sorceresses (evasion better than resilience imo)

One of the critical things about the list is its ability to redeploy and target enemy units piecemeal.

The weakness of the "mobile gunline" is that it lacks the ability to obliterate units. They key to success is delaying the enemy and causing as much panic as possible every turn. This is where the death lore really comes in handy, Doom and Darkness is probably the most lethal spell in my arsenal at the moment. The targetted unit will probably have to take 2 panic checks at -3 in its turn, one from shooting the other from magic.

The combat part of the army is still vitally important and the game usually hinges on getting my units in position for a good counter attack in turn 4 or so.
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