Khorne = Khaine?

Wraithflight · Post by **Wraithflight** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:23 pm

I know that this is a hot topic and opinions are very varried but I would like to hear peoples oppinions on khorne vs. khaine.

please dont just say that khorne is not khaine fullstop - I would like to hear some reasons why not just yes / no

In my oppinion they are different but i would like to hear from others.

Post by **Vorchild** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:29 pm

Something that likely should be specified but which is likely assumed is this is based on WFB fluff yes? Not 40K fluff? Because for 40K its pretty obvious since in that universe Khaine is "dead."

Tacklbry · Post by **Tacklbry** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Wow, I don't think I have ever seen this topic before. Or a poll to this affect either.

I suspect somone will ask you to use the search function before long.

PS: you can save yourself that time. No

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:42 pm

Vorchild wrote:Something that likely should be specified but which is likely assumed is this is based on WFB fluff yes? Not 40K fluff? Because for 40K its pretty obvious since in that universe Khaine is "dead."

Well, fractured might be a better word. But anyway, you are right. In 40K it is pretty obvious that they are not the same.

In fantasy, it's a bit more ambiguous but things like the latest witch elf banner and Black Library writers point toward them being the same. (Unfortunately)

08madelf · Post by **08madelf** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:48 pm

I believe that Khaine and Khorne are not the same because in 40K it says that Khaine is the God worshipped by the Eldar so they could not be the same because Eldar are good and Khorne is evil.

BUT if the evil Eldar (Dark elfs) worshipped Khaine then how did it swap to the good Eldar?

Ninsaneja · Post by **Ninsaneja** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:57 pm

@08madelf: The two settings are different, khaine is certainly not khorne in 40k, but in fantasy?

My personal belief is that the high elves worship a dead or false khaine, or perhaps the original khaine. They do not worship chaos.

The dark elves, while they call their god khaine, practice blood rites, skull-taking, sacrifices, and other chaos rituals. The dark elves worship khorne and call him khaine. That's one vote for yes, the dark elf khaine IS khorne.

Note that witch elves are frenzied, the effect of a mark of khorne...

Garluch · Post by **Garluch** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:01 pm

HERESTY!!! :twisted:

NO, they are not the same person(?), Khorne and his followers are big,bad and Redish, Khaine and his followers are elegant,cruel and purple...
Thhis means that redpainted boddybuilders on drugs are not the same as queers in dresses!

Tijminator · Post by **Tijminator** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:20 pm

There have been a lot of topics on this before, and if something tells me a lot more will come.

To the Mods: Maybe stickying one of these threads will help avoiding this in the future?

Anyway: In Fantasy, from what I understand from it, Gods are created by the workship of a living creature. It was something with the soul of this person joining his God or something, or his devotion was directly chanelled to his God. Shortly said: As long as people believe a God to excist, he does. The more a God is workshipped, the more power he gets, thus the more 'miracles' can happen in his name. (Warrior Priest Prayers, per example)

Khaine is something different from Khorne, but they are representing the same concept: Murder/Rage/Killing. Much like Mars, the Roman (?) God of war, Týr, the Norse God of war, and Mithras, the Persian God of war, are not the same things, but are representing the same concepts.

Let's take a look at what a God is (In Warhammer Fantasy): According to Liber Chaotica Tzeetch, a God is a vortex if spinning energy in the Aethyr. These vortexes are made up of both unconscious emotion, and conscious will and thought. These emotions, wills and thoughs are coming from, per example, Humans or Elves. A God needs souls to excist, because it, from my understanding, is a big mix of a lot of souls sharing the same beliefs and emotions. The souls need to come from intelligent beings though.

A soul consists of two parts. The amina snd the aminus. When someone dies, his or her amina (energy) returns to the Aethyr, and the animus is split up further to small parts, each part being a part of the dead's personality. These parts spread across the Aethyr, and meet and join with other parts that are like them. Together, these parts become a vortex in the Aethyr, drawing other, similair, emotions, thoughts and memories to themselves. These vortexes, if powerful enough, can become Gods, with their entire own conscience. These Gods gather followers, the followers die, their anima returns to the Aethyr, their aminus joins their God, cycle continues. So, if an Khaine-workshipping Elf dies, the 'rage' part of his animus goes to Khaine, but if a Khorne-workshipping Human dies, the 'rage' part of his animus goes to Khorne. The vortexes are made from the same (rage), they might look the same (if they actually where visible, that is), but they are not the same.

Please not this is what I understood from the Liber Chaotica, and I could be wrong. I'm sure Eldacar can explain this better than I can, but this are my two cents.

Tijminator

Morvai · Post by **Morvai** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:21 pm

following the reasoning in the liber chaotica (the section about khorne and the chapter about khaine) I would have to say yes, they are one and the same. khaine is simply one of khorne's many disguises.

however as I dark elf I say no, they aren't one and the same. after all the liber chaotica is written by a human, and a punny human can't possibly understand the ways of the lord of murder.

Ilokir lúinwë · Post by **Ilokir lúinwë** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:27 pm

Ninsaneja wrote:Note that witch elves are frenzied, the effect of a mark of khorne...

that implies that there are Khorne-orcs? :roll:

Tijminator wrote:There have been a lot of topics on this before, and if something tells me a lot more will come.

I copy that. I thought there was eternal torture for the next one who started this topic again???

for the record, Khaine =/= Khorne :evil:

Tijminator · Post by **Tijminator** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:28 pm

however as I dark elf I say no, they aren't one and the same. after all the liber chaotica is written by a human, and a punny human can't possibly understand the ways of the lord of murder.

Yeah, in Liber Chaotica: Khorne Richter Kless was still pretty much a human, but later, in Liber Chaotica: Tzeetch, he was almost entirely under Tzeetch's control (I think, it could've been someone/something else..)

Anyway: Let The Eldy decide..

Tijminator

Edit:

That implies that there are Khorne-orcs?

No, note the thing I said about intelligent..

And by the way: Ilokir, what the hell happened? "Dag lieve kindertjes"? Waarom denk je dat ik lief ben?

Tijminator

Post by **Rork** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:40 pm

die.

Tijminator wrote:Anyway: Let The Eldy decide..

Pfft. This is my specialist subject.

Khaine and Khorne are separate deities. While their source of power is similar (killing), they are very different beyond that. Khorne is chaotic, his very nature is random and unpredictable; while Khaine, as an elven "order" god is more focused and less psychotic that his more powerful brother.

Their methods are different - Khorne would never approve of assassins or anything that "tricksy" while Khaine is more refined towards fighting the enemy rather than anyone in sight. Khaine does not hate magic in the same way that Khorne does (which is a big thing).

Liber Chaotica is still just speculation on the (fictional) writers' part.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:49 pm

Khorne = food

Khaine = professional wrestler

How could the 2 be confused?

Alkkrision · Post by **Alkkrision** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:20 pm

For the record, Khaine isn't Khorne. Whilst associated with killing on the pair of them, Khaine is the God of murder. Murder is a calculated killing on someone, rather than grabbing an Axe or something to that description. If we're going by the axe method, running around shouting such things as:

1. MAIM KILL BURN!! MAIM KILL BURN!!
2. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!
3. DEATH TO THE FALS...(wait...that's 40k)
4. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!
5. KILL KILL KILL!!
6. KILL THAT BLOODY TICKING PIGEON THINGY!!

then you've got Khorne. Khorne is too busy in matters allowing blood to flow. No point in calculating how, the blood just has to flow.

Whilst similar in ideas, they are two individual Gods

.

Post by **Rork** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:50 pm

And I just remembered...it's certainly in one of the FAQs. Khaine isn't Khorne...and the FAQ is law!

Promises · Post by **Promises** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:30 pm

I think Khaine allows a bit more subtlety and calculation in his killing, while Khorne is purely for brutal, face to face slaughter. There's certainly lots of similarities but they are different in the end

Helleborn · Post by **Helleborn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:13 am

Hello!, Now I know this had been done to death but I just want to point out that in WHITE DWARF 209 May, And I quote " The wildest of all are the Witch Elves - a warrior sisterhood devoted to the Chaos God Khorne who they call Khaine Lord of Murder. " It's on page 29 of the issue and the author is Rick Priestley. Strange hey? :evil:

Post by **General kala** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:46 am

Dude, they can't even keep the six cities straight. In the latest rulebook they say the Beastmasters are from Hag Graef.

But one bit of the backstory belies all this Khaine = Khorne nonsense. Aenarion drew the Sword of Khaine to defeat Chaos.

6. KILL THAT BLOODY TICKING PIGEON THINGY!!

Helleborn · Post by **Helleborn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:53 am

But one bit of the backstory belies all this Khaine = Khorne nonsense. Aenarion drew the Sword of Khaine to defeat Chaos.
Heh lol, point taken

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:39 am

Khaine aint Khorne

Khaine and Khorne are a little similar. Khaine likess women, for he is a jealous god, he does not take to kindly to having his women killed or stolen, while Khorne wants bloodshed and skulls. Khaine murders to get what he wants, just as Khorne does, but he kills them gruesomly and gets their skulls for his alter or whatever...im not really sure what Khaine really want's though....It's a ahrd subject for there really aint any refernece saying that he isn't just that they are similar and there is debate about it..

Fingol darkwater · Post by **Fingol darkwater** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:59 am

Thanks for stickying this, now I won't have to write the same thing every few months

Not sure why there's a poll though...

Now to set the record straight, Khaine (unlike Khorne) does not hate magic. Hellebron, the head of the Temple, hates Morathi, and thus hates magic by association. It just so happens that most of the maibd share this point of view, and hate the Sorceresses. The sect emnity has nothing to do with Khaine, for he is a magical god as well.

Now on to Khorne, he is a Chaos god. He draws his power from the base emotions of all sentient races. Fear, anger, hate, etc. are his spheres of influence, and every living thing makes Khorne stronger. HOWEVER, Khaine is a lesser Warp Entity (compared to Khorne) and can only draw strength from those who worship him directly. They're both essentially very powerful daemons, what with being warp entities and all, and have similar names and styles, but they're definately not the same thing.

Crazyhorse · Post by **Crazyhorse** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:10 am

Maybe when someone joins the website they should recive an e-mail that says "Khaine is not Khorne"

. On topic: Fingol has it right Khaine is not Khorne. Thank you for making this a sticky as I also am getting sick of seeing these pop up.

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:48 pm

Muscle... twitching... urge to kill... rising!

A short explanation: No, Khaine is not Khorne. Period. End. Full stop. Use the Search function.

A more complex explanation: Khaine is a vortex in the Aethyr that draws upon rage, war, murder, death, and everything associated with it. Generally, you just shorten it all down to 'anger'. There is good anger (a Sigmarite dishing out righteous smitage onto a Slaanesh skull-that-will-soon-resemble-a-cherry-tart, for example), and there is bad anger (KILL THAT BLOODY TICKING PIGEON THINGY!!). The anger vortex can be labeled or mislabeled as Khorne. However, only an idiot would claim that the anger a Khornate Champion feels is the same anger that a Sigmarite Priest feels.

As such, the "Khorne" that the champion knows is an aspect of war - a very, very bloody aspect. The "Khorne" that the Sigmarite knows is another aspect, but one personifying the good things about anger. Khaine is simply another aspect of that underlying vortex. He is not Khorne. They are related, yes, but they are related in the sense that you're related to your cousin ten times removed or so. Khaine, Khorne, Sigmar, Ulric, Myrmidia... they all represent a part of that basic anger vortex, and they are not the same.

A more complex explanation again: Something that I am not going to write because this is called a "Quick Reply" box for a reason.

And I just remembered...it's certainly in one of the FAQs. Khaine isn't Khorne...and the FAQ is law!

Nobody reads it. Duh.

Darigaaz · Post by **Darigaaz** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:04 pm

affiliating Khaine with Khorne is a punishable offence. Violaters will be slapped, further violations will result in being slapped harder

Ilokir lúinwë · Post by **Ilokir lúinwë** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:18 pm

and thus Eldacar spoke, and thus so shall it happen. Finally some authority on the subject

Tijminator
wrote:Ilokir, what the hell happened? "Dag lieve kindertjes"? Waarom denk je dat ik lief ben?

I hoped the flemish people on the board would recognise this allusion to the famous radioprogram het leugenpaleis, which isn't sadly on the radio anymore.

Khorne = Khaine?

Is khorne = Khaine

Khorne = Khaine?