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Is there a budget RnF killer Noble? 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:06 pm
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Hey all, I'm a complete newbie to Dark Elves. I know how MOST people play them, and decided to run a different army to standard - since I feel it might do well enough in tournaments because it's so oddball!

Anyway, here is hat I was asking:

Is there a way to gear-up a Noble to cut his way through Rank & File (any & all opponents, from Chaos to Empire via Orks) whilst being under 120 points?

I don't have a great grasp of the Wargear yet, but I feel the guy has to be able to use his initiative, so Great Weapons are out. This meant I am left with Magic Weapons, that usually makes his cost extortionate (and I only have 120pts to finish the Noble off in my force).

The Noble's mobility is already taken care of, I was just wondering what different people's opinions on the matter of a cheap Noble were.

I did a searchy, and found a topic or two on equipping Nobles, that all seem to be at really high costs though, which hasn't helped me.

Any help for a struggling new Druchii?

Thanks in advance.

PS - Mods: I apologise if this is in the wrong section, I thought it was better suited to Tactics than Army Lists, since it's just about 1 model & his use, not the rest of the army.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:15 pm
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I'll be interested to see what other people put, but as far as I am aware, there isn't.

Sure, there are items out there you can use that will ensure you get all your To Hit rolls, but we have few worthwhile items that will increase our Strength to the point where we can reliably wound rank and file without it being a great-weapon; those weapons with built-in To Wound guarantees have no capacity to break Saves. Crimson Death is the only passable item, but being a halberd, any unmounted noble using it will have a pathetically low Armour Save. The same is somewhat true with the overly expensive Draich of Dark Power, which strikes -- as far as I can tell -- in Initiative order, so while it's a great weapon (when you look past the point cost), it isn't a great-weapon, but you'll have a Noble walking around with no Ward.

However, the only use I've ever had for Nobles were as BSBs and mage-hunting Terror-causers, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask.

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Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:39 pm
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That would be an assassin with Dark Venoma and the Rune of Khaine.

IF you really want a noble on foot, take one iwth extra hand weapons, full armour and the Black Amulet. That will surprise most opponents!!!

Combined with an assasin it can be even more deadly!

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Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:43 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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The Assassin is well over 120 points (in my reckonings anyway - IIRC, I think it's about 164?)

I have done some fiddling with the list, and have found I can have up to 141 points on the Noble. I might be able to find a little more though, but is there anything to fit this new price bracket?

Been thinking it might help to cause Terror (can't remember the name of the thingy that does it - Deathmask, is it?), so I think that will go on, as it will help to have less Infantry to fight (v useful versus Gobbos).

Or, since he is on his own (if the support units don't catch up), is it better to NOT cause terror, so he can charge the target unit? With Terror, they might flee, and it would leave the Noble isolated - with a few enemy units looking for revenge (never I good thing, I should imagine).

Would Blood Armour be useful, so I get better as I slaughter my way through the enemy? Or, should I go with a "fixed" save (HA, Sh, HW) so that I know for definite what save I'm getting?

Sorry for the questions, I'm just typing them as I think of them :oops:


Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:26 pm
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Cold One Knight

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For a noble that can cut through rank and file why not go for a Noble with Sword of Might and Armour of darkness, that would be 120points, he would have a 2+ armour save and a strength of 5, with 3 attacks. Not to be sniffed at.

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Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:42 pm
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If you could get just 7 pts more, a Noble w/Deathmask, lance, heavy armour, shield, and sea-dragon cloak on a Darksteed would work well, especially if you toss him into a unit of Dark Riders -- a very mobile unit that could easily maneuver around to cause the 6" Terror test, then charge in the flank or rear to bring a Fear test should they not flee the first time.

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Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:48 pm
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He would be more that 120points but the Hydra Blade will help if you are wanting him to be a rank and file killer. The possibility of up to 3 more attacks each combat round will help him get through them faster.

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Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:23 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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The Sword of Might/Armour of Darkness combination sounds quite good.

M only worry is that I will run in, chop up the guys I'm facing, then lose on Combat Resolution and flee, and be run down (the Noble will try to have support, but sometimes the support unit dies too early in the game).

This is where my unfamiliarity with items is a slight hindrance - is there an item that can make the Noble "stubborn" in combat (without there being a BSB in tow?)

Or, should I go for the Hydra Blade and rely on no. of Attacks to see me through (but still the worry of losing on combat res)?

Also, is the Deathmask a good idea? It would make nearby units flee, yes - but surely I don't want to be "stranded" in the enemy army, or does the Terror make it so much more versatile?

I have 141 points, and if it is needed could get 25pts more.

Thanks for the opinions so far, you've given me lots to think about.


Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:03 am
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Attacking an RNF unit seems pretty silly to me witha single character. lets see, 3 extra rnks+ outweigh+ standard is a 5 CR before wounds. you wouldhave to wnds 6 times to beat them. even with hydra blade there is no garantee that you will roll 3 extra attacks and that all of them will hit and wound.

The only time I would try attacking an RnF with a characther is if my characther was mounted on a chariot, manticore, or dragon. And it would be to charge him in the flank or rear. Here is why , in each of those instances you are unit strength 5 and therefore negate his ranks. Also do to the extra attacks of your mount you have a better chance of causing enough wounds to win combat. Even with a mount you need to be careful to not charge his front rank because the enemy unit can throw out a sacrificial champion to reduce your overal CR to the max for overkill.

As you can see there really is no good alternative for doing this with a Druchii characther. Chaos or VC could pull that off but it will still not be a cheap as for as cheap as you are looking.

if you want an independent characther running around use him to attack skirmishers, fast cav, etc..not a block of RnF.

You may have some sucess with Malis darkblade but he is not cheap.

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Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:21 am
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Noble
Blood armour
Lifetaker
Extra hand weapon

124 pts

Can shoot fast cav, skirmishers etc. and almost always make 2 kills per turn (by shooting) and at the same time: increase his armoursave. In combat 4 WS6 S4 attacks hurts most rank and file.

Rork edit: Please don't post item points costs.

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Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:47 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Would this work:

Noble
Heavy Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might

That leaves me with another 20pts for magic items, either a Talisman of Protection or the Deathmask for Terror causing.

Does a Magic Weapon give the +1 bonus for Hand Weapon + Shield? I have seen the debate go two ways on this:

1) Magic Weapon is a Sword, and swords are listed under "Hand Weapons" in the rulebook, so the save goes up.

2) The Magic Weapon entry states "ignores all special rules" - which would include the bonus to saves.

I was under the impression that 2) stands, but a local blueshirt thought that 1) might be the case (but then again, what do they know?)

This is important as it means I would have

1) 2+ save in combat / 4+ save v Shooting

2) 3+ save in combat / 4+ save v Shooting

Is the 3+ good enough, or should I give up on the idea of wardsave/Terror and go with Blood Armour/Armour of Darkenss?


Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:27 am
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magic weapon/shield does not give the extra bonus. This is clearly stated in BRB probably on p 121.

so it is your nr. 2. I don't even know what a blueshirt is, but he is wrong.

The noble I'd be using would be:
Noble,
Heavy armour,
enchanted shield,
sea dragons cloak
Darksteed
Lance

It costs 106, gives you a excelent support unit (3 ws 6 S6 attacks on the charge), mobility (m9) and armour (1+/0+).

Depending on the rest of your list, I'd either go for the cheap version, or add in the seal of ghond.

Ward saves are overrated, and 95% of the time it is only your mistakes that make them needed. With his save any thing from multiple bolt rbts to handguns, xbows etc will prove useless.

I'd suggest using him along with a unit of DRs with std, mus...
But if you want better advice I suggest that you show us your list/link your list, so we can help even more.

Xerasi

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Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:34 pm
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I have to disappoint you, you won't be able to make that combo because:
1) Look at page 121 of your BRB, at Magic Weapons, 2nd paragraph. It says you dont get the benefits of any rules applying to ordinary weapons
2) Look in your Dark Elf book, and check the cost of the Deathmask, as you can see, the combo isn't allowed, since a Noble can carry only 50 pts. of magic items.
3) He isn't cheap anymore :D

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Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:39 pm
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Wanderlust: that noble actually has a 2+ save in CC and a 1+ save against shooting.

Anyway, I'd go with xerasi's noble, or go with his noble but without the enchanted shield (add a normal shield instead). They are great at taking out anything from skinks to handgunners and warmachines


Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:52 pm
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I've ran a Noble with Blade of Might/Armour of Darkness combo and he does alright at rank and file killing. The only downside is, he's not great when matched in combat against a better equipped hero and is likely to get mashed in a challenge.

I find that this kind of Noble needs a decent unit to back him up, but if you equip to the lowest bidder, expect that this will backfire on you if the situations aren't right.

The key here is decide whether you want cheap, or better tactical options, because 50pts of Magic Items are almost always well spent.

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Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:55 am
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The simple answer to the question really is no, such a noble does not exist. Here's why. Regardless of cost, the most attacks you'll ever get out of a noble is 4, and at least one of them is going to be at S4 (either if he's got two weapons or if he's mounted on a cold one or something). Most commonly if you want something cheap and effective against almost anything, you'll want to pick a noble on steed with a lance. One the charge he's very likely to kill at least one enemy model and likely two, which isn't so bad. Its not killer by any means, but it is effective and cheap.

This isn't a bad thing though since he's only a hero level character and isn't meant to be a real killer of anything - this is common across most armies.

So, all that being said, you're much better off using your characters for tactical gain more than anything else. In the end, there are other things that are just as guaranteed to get your +1 to combat resolution - war banners, flank attacks, etc. and they are all generally cheaper than characters.

Seriously, you're best off with some cheap, tactically oriented character more than anything that is going to try to be killer in combat. A noble on steed has exceptional range and can either help a unit he's with or charge out to engage small target normally out of range (like certain skirmishers, fast cav, chariots, certain flyers, etc).

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Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:40 am
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[quote]The noble I'd be using would be:
Noble,
Heavy armour,
enchanted shield,
sea dragons cloak
Darksteed
Lance [/quote]

This is all you need.


Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:54 pm
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