4 RBT, too much?

[Virus646]

What do you think about using 4 bolt thrower at 2k? I already have two but at my store I can get two others for pretty cheap so I might consider buying them. I didin't make my 2k list already but I tend more on the MSU side with maybe a HS, a sorceress and a noble for heroes.

Or is it better to use the chauldron to get the most of your attacks.

[D'jihurccen]

well i think RBT can come in handy, but this means spending 20% of your list on something which can be good sometimes, but is relatively easy to take out. A foe can get a fast 400 VP simply from taking out your war machines, which a hunter noble and a group of harpies wont have much trouble doing. Spending so much on a few units means you have less points left over to do anything else. Also this means you are using up all your rares, although BG and hydras dont tend to be popular unit choices.

Your hero setup is obviously magic heavy, with a lot of points in a few vulnerable characters, multiplying the risk of your enemy taking down a few key units and crippling your army (which is what you try to avoid with a MSU type of army) I think 4 RBT could work in some lists, but combining it with a magic heavy list like that isn't such a good idea.

you are going to be spending 400 points on RBTs, and probably over 600 points on heroes. (a HS is 400 points decked out, a sorceress is 180, and the noble will probably be around 120)

that leaves you with under 1000 points to make up your defensive side to your army, which in most cases wont be enough to protect your offensive units. Maybe if you go for a very fast list with a lot of DR, maybe some COKs, and some shades you could try to just tangle up his units while your magic and range blasts the enemy to bits.

I would say go with 2 RBT, they are good to have simply because they can threaten enemies far out of the range of the rest of our units, but they are'nt a real game winning force, and spending too many points on them leaves your VPs vulnerable.

[Sulla]

No it's not excessive. Annoying for you opponent probably (all those dice) but not really overpowering. The problem to my mind is that because RBT are a little overpriced, you're compounding that by taking so many. Realisticly, you're probably paying about 100pts more than the actual value of those 4 artilery pieces!

If I want heavy shooting, I usually get better value out of 2 DoW cannons than 4 RBT because the cannons are better at dealing with the things that the rest of our army can't than RBT's. I don't need something to deal with poor armour, low toughness. That's what my infantry, cav and monsters do well. It's chariots, monsters and heavy cav that worry my boys and cannons work better vs them.

[Fr0]

Yeah, I've taken 1, 2, 3 and also four RBT's. My opinion? Too many points to take four. Two is just right for my lists.

For the record, playing with four I beat the daemons asses back to the warp before they got close to me, Khorne chariots, and Bloodcrushers got cut down netting me massive points. Four RBTs can have a nice return. Always wanted to try eight..

[Harabec]

I have definetly used 4 RBT's before. Generally in 2K I don't find I have the points or the need to take 4. But I have done it and sometimes have great results.

@Fro: Have seen 8 before. Used in a city guard list against a pain of a HE player. Wiped his silver helms in round one and them decimated a unit each turn till he died. It turned out to be vicious in that scenario.

[Kida]

personally, i find 2 to be more effective than 4. You can keep 2 RBTs safe much easier and for much longer time and it is not uncommon for me to finish a game with both of them alive.

With 4 you lack bot good deployment room and means to keep them alive.

[Ant]

Personally I think 4 is too expensive to be cost effective. However, if you don't want that rare choice for something else, 3 can be very effective indeed. You still have enough points so the army isn't too tiny, and you have a very scary shooting phase. Much more effective than 2 rbts, and it's harder to take your entire firebase out as well. Definitely worth considering.

[Venkh]

I find that the more you have the better they are as a whole.

Their main strength for me is the ability to cause panic from the first turn of the game. They are also excellent for zapping those annoying support units allowuing you dark riders free reign on the field.

I never have trouble deploying them beacause of the 48" range. You can usually ensure LOS to a target by creating gaps in the movement phase.

That said, they are not the most powerful machines in the world, there is so much t4 and ITP around these days that their fire rarely devastates units.

They are also very vulnerable to ranged attcks that cause lots of hits and just about any Flyer/melle unit will kill the 2 crew.

[Ilokir lúinwë]

The question is (having Guibert in mind) do you concentrate the fire? Using 2 RBT's I always concentrate, but with 3 or 4, I'm not sure..

[Venkh]

You need to use the movement phase to ensure that you can concenrate if you need to.

Personally i tend to concentrate just enough to do the job i need done in the phase.

For example i will concentrate just enough fire on the Black orc unit that has doom and darness cast on it. I will then switch to another target, usually a support unit that i have a chance of taking down with one volley

[Drek]

I use 3, and I find that to be just right. However, I play with no RxB's. I decided to try a 3rd RBT instead of the RXB's and am very glad I did. But I think that if you have RXB's, 2 RBT's is enough.

Personally i tend to concentrate just enough to do the job i need done in the phase.

Exactly. Don't over-focus with them- do just enough to do what you want, and then move on.

[Lord_jimmy_]

I feel if you take four, you will be relying on them too much. Dont forget they are fire support, at least thats what I believe them to be. Use them against big monsters and cavalry, but dont be too downhearted if they dont pull it off every turn.

That is why I take 2, because they support my army as they go forward. 4 Means that if your bolt throwers dont pull it off every turn you will begin to feel they are a waste, also that your army will be suffering due to the lack of impact of 400pts worth of shooting.


In my eyes
2 = Perfect fire support
4 = Too much reliance on them

[Marauder mitch2]

3 is fine 4 is too many. Dark Elves need redundency based in their list so if you are fighting woodies you will be down to 2 RBT's instead of 1.

4 is too many points of your army to make it back but 3 is better than 2.

cheers rob

[Fleshcollector]

Four is too many at 2K and 2 is more optimum. Keeping 4 lanes of fire open as you try to move your other troops around for position can lead to trouble for you. If you have a few hills, it may not be so bad but remember that closed fire lanes mean you can't shoot those RBT's and if you aren't moving troops into positions to keep those fire lanes open then your movement phase suffers which could affect your CC phase.

[Druchii1988]

I am going with the flow here. I think the effectiveness decreases the more you have of them. In 2k two RBTs will always know what to shoot. Sometimes three will be effective too but than you are wasting a rare slot on one RBT.

[Fr0]

@Fro: Have seen 8 before. Used in a city guard list against a pain of a HE player. Wiped his silver helms in round one and them decimated a unit each turn till he died. It turned out to be vicious in that scenario

That's ridiculous. Better than playing vs a Sea Guard list I suppose. 4 RBT is way too many at 2K, though I've fielded four only once, and that was because I was tired of getting stomped every game by daemons. Outside of friendly play, 4 is way too many points. You have other things that are way better to spend points on, Shades and Harpies to name a couple.

Fr0