Malekith in the New Book

Tich · Post by **Tich** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:43 am

I have said it once and i'll say 10 times more. Malikith has believed for the past 5 odd mellenia that he is going to get killed by magic. So why on earth would he have armer that doesn't protect from it, or at least a couple dozen amulets that make him ammune to it. What is up with that games workshop.

Monkeylord · Post by **Monkeylord** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:03 am

Because not as much thought went into this book as we'd like.

Like I said before, I don't think the Witch King was designed with "The Prophecy" in mind, because the prophecy was a last minute addition to the 6th edition book intended to mitigate the fact that they didn't have any male wizard models for the army.

Remember, this whole prophecy business never existed anywhere in the Dark Elves / High Elves canon until 6th edition. Up until then, male wizards were very prevalent in Druchii fluff. Hell, male wizards were the only ones featured in any of the fluff discussing the creation/commanding of the Black Arcs!

As far as I'm concerned, I hope and pray that the 7th Edition Dark Elf book will be put together in such a way that the designers pretend the 6th edition book never happened.

Take all the good ideas, and leave the lame ones behind. Don't get me wrong, I love GW and their games, but the Dark Elf book we have now is a trainwreck, even WITH the addendum (and do note that we are the ONLY army with such an addendum); it needed a lot more thought and care than it got before going to print. </curmudgeon>

BUT, it sounds like the 7th edition book is already in development, and it's going to get a lot of love and care before we get it, and I'm exceedingly stoked about that.

Hopefully, Malekith will get the attention and the rules that he deserves.

Morgil_deathbringer · Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:47 am

Ultimately, Malekith needs to be one of the very best characters in the game. And I think he'll be made into one; I think he'll be able to stand toe-to-toe with Tyrion, Archaon, and Grimgor.

On a side note - it would be fantastic to have dark elf male spellcasters again, as I use one in my army already

Monkeylord · Post by **Monkeylord** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:08 pm

Morgil_Deathbringer wrote:Ultimately, Malekith needs to be one of the very best characters in the game. And I think he'll be made into one; I think he'll be able to stand toe-to-toe with Tyrion, Archaon, and Grimgor.

On a side note - it would be fantastic to have dark elf male spellcasters again, as I use one in my army already

LOL, same here. My army is themed after a noble house that is thriving only a few hundred years or so after the original sundering, still clad in the whites and greys of their original heraldry from Nagarythe.

You know, before this prophecy nonsense.

Post by **Drainial** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:50 pm

I kind of doubt we will get male sorcerers back, its always seemed kind of fluffy to me that Malikith and Furion are the only legal male sorcerers. What would be both cool and colosaly unlikly would be this master of the darkest arts coming up with his army of beasts and replacing Malikith. I am sure it wont hapen but it would be an intresting advancment in the fluff. Maybe then we could have a reason not to attack Ulthan again and so GW wont tell everyone how crap we are again.

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:43 pm

I like the prophecy, but Im only 6ed player, so meh.

Malekith should not be some daemon of a fighter. He lost to elthalion (HE blind man!) So he is a good fighter, but not the best DE can offer rly.
However remember that as a mortal he isnt half bad - being a lvl4 and all.
I think he should derive more power from leadership qualities. Son of that awesome HE guy (no book here) he should be a warlord with few peers and hence give bonuses etc do either army deployment, etc. or leadership in battle, etc.

Having said all that, I wont ever use him. I much prefer to play a house trying to rise in power and will Always, ALWAYS take a HB. (unless<2000 OC, then its a noble).

So the characters Im more interested in are ppl like beastlords, assassing, etc. who can be said to have been told to fight for my lord.

Morgil_deathbringer · Post by **Morgil_deathbringer** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:37 pm

Hawillis wrote:Malekith should not be some daemon of a fighter. He lost to elthalion (HE blind man!) So he is a good fighter, but not the best DE can offer rly.
However remember that as a mortal he isnt half bad - being a lvl4 and all.
I think he should derive more power from leadership qualities. Son of that awesome HE guy (no book here) he should be a warlord with few peers and hence give bonuses etc do either army deployment, etc. or leadership in battle, etc.

He was also the most amazing, most awe-inspiring, almighty general of the High Elves - hailed as "Malekith the Great". Tyrion now is basically what Malekith used to be to the High Elves.

Uman · Post by **Uman** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:36 pm

I would love to see a Witch King who was truly a kingly type character. Most of the races have a single special character who is an absolute monster or represents the best-of-the-best for that race:

O&G - Grimgor/Skarsnik
Brets - Louen
Empire - K.F.
WE - Orion
T.K. - Settra
Skaven - Snickch/Nuglitch
HE - Tyrion/Teclis
Dwarfs - Thorek/Ungrim
Vamps - Vlad
Chaos - Archaon

and at the moment Druchii have Morathi - not quite the same...

I think in the new book, Morathi will stay and will be the magic special character, and Hellebron will be brought in and be the combat monster. That would leave room for Mal to be boosted in points to higher level games use and be properly kick arse! Surely this time around, we'll also get models for Kouran and Tullaris to go up against Korhil and Caradryan.

If the Black Guard do finally get a special mini, the Witch King will have to be in the characters section.

Just look at the HE for comparison of kick-arse level: Tyrion, Teclis, Korhil, Caradryan and Alith Anar. Alith Anar is only the king of Nagarythe, not even the ruler of Ulthuan - surely Mal should be a level beyond that??? I don't mind him being boosted in points, as long as the Druchii still have special characters that are fluffy and respectable in the 2000-2500pts range too.

U

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:51 pm

i´d really like to see him in the new army book - with skills that reflect his power as it is described in the new HE book: they have to MATCH teclis´ power, not just be a lvl4 mage as any army can get - i mean: even the empire can field more powerful sorcerers than him. for the rest i´d like to see his armor fit the fluff: nearly impenetrable for the weapons of mortals - and weapons of mortals includes magical weapons. the next thing i´d like to see is that his stats reflect that he is the son of the mightiest elven warrior in history - Aenarion. and that the stats of Seraphon represent that he is the mightiest of all black dragons.
this will mean that he is going to be an über- character for sure but he is the witch king. and i don´t mind if we´re only able to field him in battles of 4k or larger - who is going to field tyrion and teclis at once in a 3k battle (some cheaters may, but normally it´s just not the thing you do if you don´t want your opponent to hate you until death and beyond)

HUZZAH!

Bawa · Post by **Bawa** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:24 am

who is going to field tyrion and teclis at once in a 3k battle (some cheaters may, but normally it´s just not the thing you do if you don´t want your opponent to hate you until death and beyond)

Much the same could be said for DE players fielding Malekith in a 2000 pts army... It's unhinged. It's legal, but not in the spirit of things.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:26 am

Bawa wrote:who is going to field tyrion and teclis at once in a 3k battle (some cheaters may, but normally it´s just not the thing you do if you don´t want your opponent to hate you until death and beyond)

Much the same could be said for DE players fielding Malekith in a 2000 pts army... It's unhinged. It's legal, but not in the spirit of things.

not really - i think our opponents would love us for fielding malekith in a 2k game because one serious magical missile will make short work of him. and we have to live with 6PD and 4DD which is not enough to get anywhere, considering that we have about 1000 points left to support our mighty witch king.
whereas someone fielding teclis and a lvl2 mage can be assured of a devastating magic phase, taking malekith down without even noticing.

HUZZAH!

Post by **Drainial** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:09 pm

Hawillis wrote:
Malekith should not be some daemon of a fighter. He lost to elthalion (HE blind man!)

He did what now? Where did you get that from? In the high elf book (old version havnet seen the new yet) he doesn't even bother to fight Elthalion when he was sighted. Mal just blasted him with magic a tad. Did they meet up again?

Kheirakh · Post by **Kheirakh** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:20 pm

Malekith: 560
Lord and a hero choise

+140 Malekith chariot (Non stupid cold one chariot with a black guard champion as a charioteer. 3+ armour save.)
+340 Seraphon the Black Dragon (hero choise, 6 attacks.)

M5, Ws8, Bs6, S5(7), T4, I8, A4, Ld10

Malekith is a 4th level wizard. Always uses dark lore. +1 to cast the spells.

Malekith must be the general of the army.

Immune to psychology.

Eternal hatred.

Stubborn against HE.

Armour of Midnight: 2+ armour save. Gives 2+ ward save against non magical attacks. Also increases Malektihs stats so that he has S5 and T4.

Hand of Khaine: Gives Malekith +2 strenght and ignores enemys armour saves.

Destroyer: Same as now.

Two magical weapons: Malekith has 5 attacks. He can decide how many attacks he will make with HoK and how many with Destroyer.

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:29 pm

He is the son of the greatest warrior, but with a burnt face and full of bitterness.
He is not better than Teclis at magic. Humans dont have better mages, they have one mage who has been buffed due to magic items.
Dont forget how rare a lvl4 mage rly is. So a good fighter (WS8 is great) and top mage (lvl 4 is top) is very very good for a mortal who hasnt sold his soul to the chaos gods, etc.

Yeah lets give him armor that makes him almost impossible to kill. Because that will make the king of the elves elf like and fun/challenging to use.... not!

Who says that he is the best fighter? I dont. just because he is the king doesnt mean that he is the best. It makes him damn good, but no where near the top IMO. Malekiths power comes from being a strong fighter, a powerful mage, having knowledge of politics, etc so that he holds his nation in an iron grip, having stuff like a dragon to ride (rulers = cool stuff at their disposal).

You want an example of someone who is top in their field;
Morathi. She better be the stuff.
Now other wizzards might actually be better than her on the TT because she doesnt use many magic items. However if you were to strip other wizards of their trinkets, morathi better be on level with the best of them (not as strong as nagash or lizardmen frogs but = Teclis > empire one = some vamps, etc. = most gifted chaos possible, >any skaven, etc.)
So whilst she may not have a staff of general coolness, I would like to see a knowledge of all 6 spells, a +2 to cast and some other bonuses. Something to reflect that she only has a mortal form (so I dont see her getting extra dice to cast) but has a great knowledge of sorcery (so perhaps -1 to all casting values for her - she know how to cast spells easily or maybe less chance of miscasting, perhaps a spell of her own, etc.).

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:32 pm

@ Drainial. yeah the met up after that IIRC and Malekith got stabbed and then fled like a girl.
(See, he is the son of a great warrior, but this doesnt make him naturally brave. He is brave but he still runs like a girl cos he isnt perfect.)

Keralith · Post by **Keralith** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:58 pm

Hawillis wrote:@ Drainial. yeah the met up after that IIRC and Malekith got stabbed and then fled like a girl.
(See, he is the son of a great warrior, but this doesnt make him naturally brave. He is brave but he still runs like a girl cos he isnt perfect.)

I'd rather call it a "tactical retreat".

Silas witchblade · Post by **Silas witchblade** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:09 pm

Malekith just needs a few points that need fixing that have already been mentioned, but lets just revisit them.

Circlet of Iron: ok, this gave him no special ability in the current edition, but is supposed to be an item allowing him defense against magic(?) if I remember correctly. All GW needs to do is make it give Malky at a minimum a 5+ Ward Save against ALL magical attacks (shooting and CC)!

Magical Ability: First off, hes a level 4 mage, not bad! But he is supposed to be an experienced practitioner of Dark Magic? Simple fix will be to let him pick which 4 spells he can use during battle, or have him know all 6.....

Armour: Is it heavy armor or not? And it was made to assist Malekith move around after being injured, so it must have some sort of magical ability. make ita 2+ save and possibly tack regeneration onto that. Yeah, a nice and nifty 75 point magic item!

There are a few other things that need to be fixed, but that is all I will give for now!

Lord tareq · Post by **Lord tareq** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:20 am

His armour should be a 1+ armoursave, with a 2+ ward versus non-magical attacks.
Alternatively his armour could stay like this, but the wardsave would work against anything except Dark Magic.

Post by **Layne** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:56 am

No save against Dark Magic? Getz one thinking, maybe the sorceror that is going to destroy Malekith is... Malekith?

Post by **Drainial** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:51 pm

Kind of depends on how acurate the prophacy is, Malikith could miscast and die from it but I dont see him raising an army of terrible beasts and not puting some kind of protection clause into the agreement.

Rules wise the simplest fix, though not the only one, would be to have the circlet give him magic resistance, maybe 2 or even three. That would protect him against most magic but the odd magic missile that did get through would be deadly which is in keeping with the fragility of elves. Incoporate a desent mundane save into the armour of midnight (its made of metoric iron and in the warhammer world that seems to make a diferance for some obscure reason) and hero level charactors with the sword of might cant launch sucide attacks to kill him anymore (sucide because they then get eaten by an irate dragon.

Malikite · Post by **Malikite** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:01 pm

Malekith should not be some daemon of a fighter. He lost to elthalion (HE blind man!) So he is a good fighter, but not the best DE can offer rly.
However remember that as a mortal he isnt half bad - being a lvl4 and all.
I think he should derive more power from leadership qualities. Son of that awesome HE guy (no book here) he should be a warlord with few peers and hence give bonuses etc do either army deployment, etc. or leadership in battle, etc.

I think your referring to eltharion and I believe he is back to normal in this new edition (he's not blind) And I don't recall Malikith looseing to eltharion either infact I blieve Malikith kicked his behind.

Granted that whole thing of blinding him is just foolishness and I'm glad that is no longer there.

Malikith should be a awesome fighter just under Tyrion and an amazing mage just under Teclis. He should be like he was before and his dark sword should give Malekith the ability to steal a power of "his" choice not the opponents (what a dumb rule) Circulet of iron should be there also.

I also think Malekith should have toughness 4 and the reason for that is because the armour is welded to his body it basically is his body and I don't know about you guys but having a body made of iron should make you though than the normal elf imo.

He should be expensive but crazy powerful. Tyrion or Teclis should not be able to take him in a 1 on 1. He's not even mortal he's imortal now he's learned so much over the years where other elves havent even lived close to his age.

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:56 pm

/agree with Khier

I am really happy with the new Empire book and how they layed out Karl Franz with his Mount Options.

All the Chariot fans can put him back in a chariot. (give the chariot a ward save of soem sort vs cannon balls wouldn't do that the Batmobile got blown up and batman was stuck asking robin for a piggy back ride into combat)

All the sepharon Fans can have her back. As Khaine's right hand man he ought to be able to Pimp out on a Manticore as well.

How about a Ridden Royal Hydra? Mount options for the win. One of the things I love about Warhammer is the options we have in building our troops and army lists. Sadly that is an Option long denied to DE players.

No matter what I hope the new book contains a Malekith who is fieldable in a 2,000 point game. What if the entire scenario of this Lowly Skirmish is that the enamy ambushed him and his private guard in transit? I think 1 lord +3 Hero is fine... in this 2,000 point game he could have his personal standard (BSB) and they should require you to field a unit of Black guard if you are goign to field Malekith... why would he go to battle without his honor guard? He doesn't have to join them or anything ... they just have to be there... Otherwise it would be like Grimgor leading a bunch of Snotlings.

As for Comabt prowess... Malekith doesn't have to be the baddest melee on the table... nor does he have to be the best sorceror. He IS the best General in the old world though... and some rule should reflect that... like Leadership 12 with an 18" radius. Seriously If you were Joe Spearman out there on the line and knew Malekith was watching you would you run like a biatch when half your unit was wiped out? I'd rather stand and fight a greater demon to the death than face Malekiths displeasure if he noticed me running from combat. I picture the sequence of events as this... Malekith magically amplifies your pain receptors... lets the Beast masters beat the crap outta you for a few months. Throws you in a cell with a captured Nurgle Warrior and makes you pestilent.. The witch elves sacrifice you to Khaine and feed the left over bits to the Harpies. Hell no!!

Post by **Drainial** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm

You say that rationaly but most people faced with certain iminant death or proboble pain and death in the future run like hell, they are not thinking at that point. It would be hard to be ratinal with a greater daemon breathing down your neck. Still you do make a good point, if Franz gets special leadership abilities then Malikith certainly should. As for the mount thing, he lost his old unique cold one chariot, its not unique anymore. So what can pull his chariot now? Hydra chariot anyone?

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:28 pm

well teclis almost took him out, Nagira or whatever malus sisters name is almost took him out. He really gets owned by other casters doesn't he.

Livefromnaggaroth · Post by **Livefromnaggaroth** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm

Eltharion 'tried' to kill Malekith, but our king did not find him worthy of attention and even as he left the pathetic Eltharion stabbed his back!

The 'back to full eye-sight' Eltharion is true, I believe it was said they simply wanted you to field characters that are already dead, similarly to Ironclaw or Grom for example, for the O&G.

Malekith back in his chariot (works for Settra, dunnit?) would make me feel less guilty if he were a tank. Back to 4th ed! I'll say it once and I'll say it again; Malekith S 5 T 5 all the way! Maybe a point of toughness (4 to 5) from his 'welded-to-my-arse' magically enhanced armour?

Also, how about the ability to cast magic in combat?