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Is Gavin Thorpe designing 7th Ed DE? 
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I think I'm rather alone in this but I do believe that it actually doesn't matter who is writing a book - I do believe that those guys that do it love the game as much as I am and if they do they will do everything to make each army balanced and interesting to play coz they understand how important it is for players. Sure there were mistakes and there are possibilities to "cheese-out" the army but that only shows that play testers think about this game as fun and not as "do everything you need to win" - I think they should search for all those combinations but let me just say I really trust in them and I really do hope that the armies that will appear in future will be more and more balanced just as the minis are getting better and better - this is how it goes for me.


Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:20 pm
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Handmaiden wrote:
- What they dont realise however that talking trash and being a jerk in anime makes one cool, doing it in real life makes you look like a retard.

:twisted:
Master of Arneim wrote:
in the last gt at the 5^ match (6 in total) we where positioned on table 86, 94, 101, 104 (the tables where 105)...

Haha! Someone was worse than the DE players. 105 must really have a poor list... ;)
Mandavar Bloodlust wrote:
Thanks for the infos (rumors) Rabidnid, but ASF for all elves? ARG that wouldnt be fun in my opinion, this would overpower us and the Wood Elves too.

Maybe it would encourage WE players to bring, say, some elves along for combat purposes, instead if just trees? :roll:


Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:26 pm
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Well as someone pointed out in another forum (I don't remember who or where), newly redone armies seem to get a little overpowered. Do you think that would happen with our army? It would might be fun in the begining, but would ruin the game after a few matches and no one wanting to play you...

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Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:27 pm
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Arnold Layne
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I am going to agree with Joey Boy and say I do like our list as it is now. It's not perfect, I mean, not all the options in it are actually usable, but I'm sure that mistake won't be repeated. As it stands now, the only major problem with the Dark Elf list is the High Elf list. Tere are many minor problems, but then our list is seven years old. But I would like to make another point that might be good food for thought for you all.

It is possible, you know, that ASF is something that the Devs have always wanted to do for the High Elves, but it wasn't possible because it would break too many of the other army lists. At this moment, the only list that it breaks is the Dark Elves, because the other lists have the means to deal with it with the armies they already use, like for instance good armour, high toughness, powerful shooting phase, lots of inbuilt impact hits, or an uber magic phase, or what have you.

But it's also possible that the Devs also have something that they've always wanted to do for the Dark Elves that would have had a simliar effect, i.e., if we had been given the Dark Elf Grand Plan, then we would have got a slight boost against other armies, and would have become unplayable agaiinst HE.

If I had been in their situation, I would have aimed for a simultaneous release, but no doubt there are excellent reasons why that could not be done.

All I'm suggesting is, maybe the Devs do have something really super awesome in mind for us, and have done for some time. Possibly even since before the last army book. Sure, the High Elf list makes ours look pretty poor just now, but perhaps if we had been given our new army book first, Ulthuan.net would be full of "what is to be done with the ridiculous Dark Elves?" Someone had to go first, and unfortunately for us, it was the High Elves.

ASF was a either a sublime or a ridiculous move - time will tell - which in either case took some courage for the Devs to undertake. So I think it quite likely that the Devs have something in mind for us that is equally sublime, or ridiculous. And in either case, it won't much matter who is leading the Dev team.

Time will tell.

Layne.

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Inventory: longspear, 2 short swords, glaive, winter gear, shade cloak,
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Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:55 pm
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Handmaiden wrote:
lol I dont think I'd give DE slaves either, not withoit a 0-X unit limitation, or Rare or special choice. :shock: While its characterful, boy it can be cheap/exploited as hell if it was made a Core selection.


oh well, every single army book published so far has far too much cheap and exploitable choices. why shouldn't we as well?
it would be good something like "one slave unit per one infantry unit in the army" though.

bikeninja wrote:
Well as someone pointed out in another forum (I don't remember who or where), newly redone armies seem to get a little overpowered. Do you think that would happen with our army? It would might be fun in the begining, but would ruin the game after a few matches and no one wanting to play you...


i hope it will happen. it would be unfair leaving us back to the last place for eternity. and hardly people will refuse to play against your freshly boosted army, especially in tournments, also considering that many who never had dark elves will buy the new ones hoping easy victories. it went like this when bretonnia came out, and then for the bushy wood elves, and the tanky empire, new high elves...
all of them have easily exploitable choices and this brings in more customers, y'know...

this all is sad, but well...


Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:14 pm
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Well if Gav handles his previous motivations, Cold One Knights will be absolute murder (look at 'em, that's M9 S5 A2 for ya :twisted: )

And as said earlier if he truly didn't care he/they wouldn't have bothered with the revision. 'Antisocial' armies like Chaos, Druchii, Asrai tend to attract a very fanatical following so GW must no doubt realize there's a lot of fan-base pressure here. Whatever happens, they cannot satisfy everyone; even here we are divided.

Slave hordes?
Bound Daemons?
Mid-range cavalry?

It's hard to define what is truly Druchii, I guess as long as it's spiky (and it's got Core FastCav...) I'll learn to live with it. :D

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Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:24 pm
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Arnold Layne
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I doubt a Cold One ought to be faster than a White Lion, but it sure as hell ought to be nastier. M7, S5 impact for each in BTB on the charge, S4, A2. Also because they are Stupid and therefore have a limited self awareness, they always march. Ice Cold.

Not only would they Cause Fear, they'd also cause fear.

Layne.

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Caveat Numptor.


Karonath - WS6 / S4 / T4 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Bloodfeather, heavy armour, helm, Sea Dragon Cloak, rope x 2, month rations x 2
Inventory: longspear, 2 short swords, glaive, winter gear, shade cloak,
Mount: Dark Steed (Shiny), talisman of kurnous
Gold: 2294
Skills: Ambidexterity, Controlled Frenzy, Basic Ride, Drukh Kaganth
Class: Khainite


Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:44 pm
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Quote:
I doubt a Cold One ought to be faster than a White Lion, but it sure as hell ought to be nastier. M7, S5 impact for each in BTB on the charge, S4, A2. Also because they are Stupid and therefore have a limited self awareness, they always march. Ice Cold.



Cold ones need to be

M= 7 Ws= 3 Bs= 0 S= 5 T= 5 W= 2 A= 2 Ld= 3

Imho. Yes they'd be monsters now that theyd have 2 wounds, but the High Elf asf would be randomised between monster and knight and a T5 monster with 2 wounds should not really have to fear most of the HE's ASF right. Cold ones have always imo been best as monsters and not mere steeds, suits their image better.

new cold one model looks Trex like...monster!


Last edited by Handmaiden on Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:39 am
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Arnold Layne
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Vandal delle 3V wrote:
...every single army book published so far has far too much cheap and exploitable choices. why shouldn't we as well?


Except for the Elvish army books. Some of their choices are a bargain, but none of them are cheap. We shouldn't have anything cheap because we're Elves. Elves = Elite = Expensive. Drawing, of course, a clear line between expensive and overpriced. Of course, if they do put Slaves in our army list, then I warn you now GW, I at least shall never buy them.

Mid Range Cavalry, Raneth? What would that mean? I had pictured something with a Sea Dragon Cloak, and Sea Dragon Barding. Massive shooting save, respectable CC save, not sure about other equipment, obviously a movement penalty, but as to whether they'd be Fastcav or not, would depend on equipment. Lance + shield, no, Drannach + RXB, yes.

I like bound Daemons, that after all is what the Wand of the Kharaidon is, more like that would be peeeechy.

As long as they don't take our Core Dark Riders away.

Layne.

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Caveat Numptor.


Karonath - WS6 / S4 / T4 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Bloodfeather, heavy armour, helm, Sea Dragon Cloak, rope x 2, month rations x 2
Inventory: longspear, 2 short swords, glaive, winter gear, shade cloak,
Mount: Dark Steed (Shiny), talisman of kurnous
Gold: 2294
Skills: Ambidexterity, Controlled Frenzy, Basic Ride, Drukh Kaganth
Class: Khainite


Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:05 am
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haha I'd buy slaves because theyre so beardy 8)


By Ross Watson
Squig-at-Large

A Piece of Cheese in My Beard
During the genesis of modern wargaming, a slang word known as “beardy” came into being. The exact definition of slang words is never easy to pin down, but in general, the word came to represent the older, grizzled veterans who knew all the tricks to winning wargames. Over time, “beardy” migrated to America where it turned into “cheesy,” and both words are now somewhat different from their origin. Eventually, cheesy and beardy entered into Games Workshop slang along with words such as weedy, gubbinz, bitz, and Waaagh!

In general, both "beardy" and "cheesy" refer to the same thing. However, those words have recently acquired uses and meanings that do not accurately reflect their origin. Many new hobbyists may become confused when something is called “cheesy” or may misunderstand why the word keeps showing up in discussions (particularly on the internet). So, first lesson: “beardy” is from the UK, “cheesy” is from the US, got it?


Last edited by Handmaiden on Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:09 am
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Quote:
Except for the Elvish army books


I dunno, the possibility of 6x 5 Dragon Princes (WS5 A2 L9, S5 on the charge, M8) comes at 900 Points. No command, no extra items.

I'd say that's a cheap and exploitable choice. (:


Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:14 am
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Arnold Layne
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I did say, drawing the line between expensive and overpriced. I should also add, drawing a line between cheap and underpriced. At what, 30pts, Dragon Princes are not cheap. Compared to our Cold One Knights, they're a massive bargain, but they're not cheap. That's what I was getting at. I think if DragonPrinces are gonna do what they can do for that price, then COK as they are ought to be 23pts.

If you compare to Empire Knights (may as well, same price) you've got Fear causing, mitigated by stupidity, same movement, slightly worse armour save, same strength and toughness, higher strength on the mounts attacks, 1 better Ld. All in all, I'd say they should be the same price, but you could argue me to 24pts for COK as they are. But that starts to make 4 x 5 COK look really good...

Layne.

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Caveat Numptor.


Karonath - WS6 / S4 / T4 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Bloodfeather, heavy armour, helm, Sea Dragon Cloak, rope x 2, month rations x 2
Inventory: longspear, 2 short swords, glaive, winter gear, shade cloak,
Mount: Dark Steed (Shiny), talisman of kurnous
Gold: 2294
Skills: Ambidexterity, Controlled Frenzy, Basic Ride, Drukh Kaganth
Class: Khainite


Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:35 am
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Quote:
COK as they are ought to be 23pts.


right

but arg Cold one knights as they are now should totally never have been put into print. :roll:

I mean what was the point of making them slower normal steeds, I mean they may as well of scrapped cold ones and had armoured horses insted for those stats right.


Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:39 am
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This thread no longer has anything to do with the original question. Just to point that out.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:48 am
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:lol: So true

But what I meant with my remark on Cold One Knights, in a broader perspective given Gav's earlier motivations, that it seems to depend on how cool the new models will look whether they will get good rules or not.

Right now I'm praying to Khaine for top-notch design :D

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
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Class: Warrior


Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:56 am
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Quote:
This thread no longer has anything to do with the original question. Just to point that out.


Thats probably to be expected with this kind of topic anyway otherwise you have :

Q - Is Gav Thorpe Designing new DE?

A- We don't know

End topic.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:23 am
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Handmaiden wrote:
but arg Cold one knights as they are now should totally never have been put into print. :roll:

The problem was that they didn't change stats-wise (as I recall, without checking) from their entry in the previous army book but they did lose the additional rule that meant that they lost thier stupidity once they'd been in CC and the Banner of Blood (which meant no stupidity from the off).

The reasoning for this, which made absolute sense in terms of rationale, at the time was to remove complicated rules, and items that were a no-brainer to take.

Obviously, in hindsight, these two goals turned out to be slightly misguided but that's the way it goes sometimes. Certainly I expect them to be fixed this time around.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:12 pm
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@ bikeninja

Well we call it in German: Das Geschenk der späten Geburt -> translation -> The gift of the late birth.

Its always the same with a new outcoming book who is overpowered. As I said before in an other topic i know enough powergamers who have a half dozen of armies and they always play the army who has the latest AB.

Also the same on tournaments.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:24 pm
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This topic seems utterly pointless to me, as someone already stated about the new book, it will be what it will be. None of this moaning is going to change what it is. Gav might get it, he might not, it doesnt matter either way as none of you have any input.

Seems to me you are all condemning the book already. You all go on and on about Gav messing up the last one but you are all still playing Dark Elves, and spending time talking about playing Dark Elves on the internet, so maybe your moans are pointless too?

I for one realise the fact that at the moment Dark Elves are vastly underpowered but I will hold any criticisms I have for the book until after it has come out instead of spending my time criticising rumours. Im also confident that the book will be balanced and will be good.

If Gav does do the book, so what? Its his job, and he is more qualified than any of you to do it.

In fact, judging from a lot of the ideas people on this forum have put forward for the new book, I'm glad its Gav.

Slaves.... :roll:

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:44 pm
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Handmaiden wrote:
Quote:
This thread no longer has anything to do with the original question. Just to point that out.


Thats probably to be expected with this kind of topic anyway otherwise you have :

Q - Is Gav Thorpe Designing new DE?

A- We don't know

End topic.
Then this thread should be locked, as all you're doing is spamming. The question has been answered, and none of this commentary has anything to do with Gav. There are other threads that are discussing the rest of your comments, suggestions, and concerns.

*pushes the button on his 'Wrap It Up Box'* Wrap it up, B.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:45 pm
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Handmaiden wrote:
Thats probably to be expected with this kind of topic anyway otherwise you have :

Q - Is Gav Thorpe Designing new DE?

A- We don't know

End topic.
Considering the fact that he is designing the book, and has said so himself on several occasions, I'd feel like correcting your answer.

~ Nag

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:27 pm
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Quote:
Then this thread should be locked, as all you're doing is spamming


Wrong. For the question was never that simple. I also asked if people think he should return and if they think hes capable form looking at the Dark ELves with a fresh angle.

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:20 pm
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Nagathi wrote:
Considering the fact that he is designing the book, and has said so himself on several occasions, I'd feel like correcting your answer.

~ Nag
Well then that settles it :lol:

Nag, do you also know who he's working with? Apart from Jes Goodwin in the modelling department (YAAAY JES! :D )

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:37 pm
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