Queries from a new DE Player

[Ptw]

Hello all,

I am a new DE player, having just retied my tomb kings. Really looking forward to getting going with my druchii!

Anyway, browsing the army lists I notice that assassins don't seem to be widely used. Why is that? Too expensive to field? Not as effective as they would seem? I'm liking a manbane/chill blade equipped assassin. Ok, he is 179 points, but could be a nasty surprise for for the unexpecting

Also I seem to remember a great thread a few years ago that was a really nice summary of the DE units and recommendations for their use. I can't seem to find it with the search. Can anyone help with that?

Thanks!

[Loki]

Assassins are not very effective for the points you pay for them. They usually have very little in the way of a save and aren't that great for killing enemy characters. Also, seeing as you're new, I hope you notice the word "FAQ" in my signature. Click on it. Now read it. Now read it again. This will make your life much easier, trust me...

[Rob the dark elf]

Welcome to druchii.net!

I agree with Loki17 on this. Assassins are quite expensive for what they are and can really struggle to kill a lot of things. They are also something of a one-trick-pony in that the turn in which they reveal themselves they can really upset the enemy's plan and throw them off guard. However, as soon as that round of combat is over they tend to die in epic fashion due to their T3 and general lack of saves.

There are other niggles about them as well. Such as their amazing BS but inability to carry missile weapons (the only one they can have is the Lifetaker which always hits on a 2+ anyway!)

Although, I still love assassins and will occassionally take one just because they're so dam cool.

I'm liking a manbane/chill blade equipped assassin

Unfortunately you aren't allowed to put poison on a magic weapon. I remember when I first started and I didn't know the restriction of only 1 poision per weapon and equipped my assassin with Black Lotus and Manbane it worked quite well, but was sadly illegal.

[Ptw]

the turn in which they reveal themselves they can really upset the enemy's plan and throw them off guard. However, as soon as that round of combat is over they tend to die in epic fashion

I was thinking of a situtation where the assassin hides in a unit of execs. Even if they get charged (a disasterous event) the assassin could reveal and strike first, reducing the amount of attacks the execs see. Hopefully leaving some alive to strike last where they could clean the enemy's clock...

Ok, even without my illegal poison/magic weapon combo , does this kind of technique work in practice or is it just a good 'in theory'. Or is protecting individual models worth a tenth of the points a naked assassin is just not worth it? I'm just trying to get an idea of how the DE stuff really works, not really having played with them yet.

Thanks!

[Rob the dark elf]

I've used a similar tactic before. If they get charged though, they're in trouble and I think an assassin is an expensive insurance policy. But the plan can work, it just depends what they get charged by. Elite or Ogre type units will tear the unit a new one regardless. But I have seen the assassin do a couple of wounds, lead to a drawn combat or lessen the loss and then support can arrive. If you give him an extra hand weap, mark of Khaine? (+1 attack) and manbane, he will have 5 first strike attacks hitting and wounding on 3's- so he can do some damage.

Assassins are worth testing to see how you like them but no Dark Elf plan I've ever heard of, hinges on one. They generally work a lot better in theory than in practice. They're just a little to expensive and a little too flimsy.

For the same points cost as a kitted out assassin though, you could get a unit of Dark Riders with musician which would help to ensure that the execs never get charged in the first place and are infintely more useful. But as I say, the best advice I can give you is just play a couple of games with an assassin and see what you personally think, but I generally take them for fun rather than if i'm trying to win.

Hope this helps dude.

[Darkx]

I dont find assassins worth playing as they are simply dead points ( well -hidden) and have no weight on the game until they get into combat(revealed), if that happens. They also die quite fast, not having a save.

Basically - it is an investment; one which rarely pays off for me anyways. If for some reason he doesnt get revealed, than you started the battle at -125 points. If he leaves his squad, then he is subpar due to not having any ranged attacks and can be shot. I'd rather have another unit of DRs running around

[Archon_matt]

I find that Assassins cost too much points for their ability. Their main uses are the traditional Hidden use and the old deploy-as-a-scout. Quite frankly, I see both as a complete waste of time. Hidden can pull a combat your way, but that's only good when your unit would normally get the hell beaten out of it. In any other situation, Assassins are generally just overkill. And overkill sucks.
In Scout mode, an Assassin can kick War Machine's arses. So useful versus Empire and Dwarves; however, against races and armies with little or no war machines, its a waste of time. And honestly, Shades are cheaper and do more in that situation.
THE ARCHONS VERDICT: Say NO to Assassins, 'less you're playing a siege or a massive uber huge game oph doom 1,1,1. And in those games, even Malekith is worth it. And Malekith sucks trees.

[Sulla]

Anyway, browsing the army lists I notice that assassins don't seem to be widely used. Why is that?

Usual scenarios for assassins.

Expensive infantry unit gets charged by enemy heavy cav. Assassin pops out! Ching, ching. Smoke clears, enemy hero stands unscathed, cuts down assassin, breaks unit, runs them down. Nets about 200VP for unit, 200VP for assassin and 100VP for std...

As 7th ed progresses, we may start to see more infantry heavy lists but unless we see more heroes fighting on foot leading them (or assassins get upgraded in the next codex), there is not much return from bringing them to a battle. Especially compared to how much you can get out of a noble on steed or dark pegasus or a lvl2 sorceress (which cost about the same points).

[Cadeyrn]

I think the major flaw with the whole idea of assassins is that GW's 'to hit" table is not written like the "to wound" table. Since there are no 2's or 6's, a WS 10 is no better than WS 6 in most fights. Say he attacks a WS 2 zombies, he hits on 3's, they hit on 5's. Not exactly the lopsided fight you'd expect from an uber killer vs. a slightly animated corpse.

Now put him up against something with toughness 4 or an armor save, and suddenly he's hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's, with a armor save, and your 125 points nets you 1 additional wound, woohoo! Add another 50 points to trick him out, and maybe he'll get 2 wounds.

Now bring back the good old days of being able to deploy him in an enemy unit, maybe he'll be worth 125-175 points.

[Irtehdar]

The assassin is not often used for multiple reasons.
Firstly its very expensive and cant really perform the job its supposed to. Secondly he takes a hero choice.
Thirdly our army is quite expensive to begin with so hiding the assassin is very hard. If theres an assassin present it can be seen on the units you have. He and other units are simply too expensive to make him invissible.

He has one good purpose. Bring him in afew battles now and then when fighting regular opponents. The people you play against often needs to be aware of his existence.
Make sure the nicely painted assassin is with you every time and have it standing next to your army list. Hes more efficient as a ''scary'' effect like so than when hes included in the actual army. If your opponent have seen you have brought the model s/he has to either calculate your army points or assume its in the army somewhere. Both of these things takes your opponents mind away from the battlefield itself.
This is druchii tactics... its how we fight...

[Scareypete]

Irtehdar beat me too it.

The psychological effect of people who know what an assassin can do when they play DE is the only reaosn to Own one... now fielding it is a different issue. But you gotta go 1 character light to make the psych out factor work.. Counting characters is easy... But if you come up short 1 hero he might be in one of those units. Plus for the 179 Points you can have another unit of DR and a unit of Shades.

[Vallorn deathblade]

normal assassins = phycological usage (irtehdar)

Shadowblade = practical use and looks great too!

all in all buy them both and follow the tactics that Irtehdar posted with the normal assassin and then pop Shadowblade out of the enemy unit with the juicy high PT charecter and rip him a new one .

[Benmannen]

I've had luck with an Assassin in my Cauldron army... I just give him the Draich of Dark Power... He usually kills 2 models a turn and the killing blow helps vs Characters... But a Noble can do this almost as well and can have armor too.

I used a list with 2 of them (!) and that was not bad at all... Had two big units of Witch Elves with a hidden Assassin in each. They would pop out when the WE unit got flanked by something... It's a lot of points though, I had a Lvl 4 + a lvl 2 + 2 assassins... Doesn't leave much for troops.

Also remember an Assassins base cost is as much as a Dark Elf Highborn! But he is fun to field...

[Krupp]

At 125pts base the Assassin is way too expensive, in alot of cases hes more than the character hes soposed to kill! Heres hoping he gets killing blow and 50% point reduction.

[Khaladmour]

Also I seem to remember a great thread a few years ago that was a really nice summary of the DE units and recommendations for their use. I can't seem to find it with the search. Can anyone help with that?

That sounds really useful and I've heard people mention it before. I'll second ptw's request. Does anyone know what this thread was called?

[Khel]

I suggest you read through the 'Hall of Fame' Thread. Thats where you would most probably would find it.

[Bloodknife]

Welcome. while i enjoy the assasin models for their looks, i find they lack in every other aspect and have yet to find a statagy that uses them effectivly. it is kinda sad really.

[Valketh]

I alsothink that the assasins are their just for looks and do not do much damage. Though I will still have one in my army. !wink!

[Dalamar]

There's only one use for assassin
Rune of Khaine + Manbane
that way they can be a nasty surprise hidden in a block of infantry.
they can also be quite useful at taking down war machines and lines of gunners (without any command group bonuses so he only has to kill 1 for a draw)

[Benmannen]

I field a killing blow Assassin sometimes when i have a Cauldron around... But you can get unit of 20 spearmen for the same price that will do better for the points.

Although he is fun to field sometimes, especially of you go Shadow magic and throw him around with Steed of Shadows...