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Shooting in round 1 
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Assassin
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In my regular gaming group we have a house rule(not sure if its accepted in other groups) saying that you may shoot with ranged weapons even if a blind man could see its out of reach.
So in turn 1 every shooting unit sends arrows into the air. Then we measure where the arrows/bolts/etc. lands.
We view it more or less as the ''commander'' of the unit shoots a single bolt off to see how far his troops can shoot.

Both players pays attention to this and now have a reasonable knowledge about wich units can shoot how far. W see this as fair because it doesnt really gives either side any advantage over the other. It merely reminds both players of something they should already know before the battle.
Player X is dark elves and shoots 24 inches. (RxB)
Player Y is wood elves and shoots 36 miles. (damn special rules :P )

What I was wondering about, as Im about to play in a small tourney with players outside my regular group, is shooting in turn 1 even though you know it will fail accepted in general? Dont want to start out with a bad score for sportsmanship on day 1.

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Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:35 pm
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Do NOT do it, its cheating and decent players will usually deploy a few inches back..your rule means that this is useless. Simple as that

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Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:17 pm
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beastmaster kurlan wrote:
Do NOT do it, its cheating and decent players will usually deploy a few inches back..your rule means that this is useless. Simple as that
Seing as its something we have always taken for granted within our group I dont consider it ''cheating'' as such. As I said its a ''house rule'' we have always played with. I was unsure if it was accepted elsewhere. Anyway thanks for the quick response. Its not accepted outside our group so ofc Im not going to do it. :D

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Daddy! I sorta kinda had an accident... I was playing with my slave and it sorta... Umm... It's arm fell off!
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"3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win"

Any idiot can measure strenght. Against properly played MSU you must measure something you cannot see.


Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:32 pm
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I would advise against it, if you know you are out of range. You give an advantage to the guys with guess weapons (cannon, stone thrower).

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Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:01 pm
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I wouldn't have a problem with it, and have had it done against me before in tourneys. Nothing prevents you doing it in the rules, and historically it happened as well. I don't do it myself, but not because I see it as unsporting. I usually find I'm better at guessing ranges than my opponents, so doing it myself would usually put me at a disadvantage.

It is much better to do it with magic rather than shooting though. That way your warmachines get to take advantage of it, and they are the ones which usually need it!

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Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:26 pm
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I have no problem with it, though I can't see that its particularly useful, especially for ranges of 24" which, on the first turn, are pretty easy to figure out if you're paying attention to your opponent's deployment or the guy gives you a marker at that point (a lot of people mark out the extents of their deployment zone with dice - giving you a clear depiction of what all the ranges should be).

I would not say its cheating, or even devious. More devious methods involve using a ruler as your only measurement device (thereby have a 12" measure in your view at all time), using scouting positions that you know won't be available (so you can measure to see that you're too close), etc.

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I would advise against it, if you know you are out of range. You give an advantage to the guys with guess weapons


A good point. Also keep in mind two things. First, its a sign of weakness (not that its a big deal, but it does indicate what will become significant hesitation in figuring out distances for charging, etc) and secondly it gives your opponent more information at the same time

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It is much better to do it with magic rather than shooting though.


Exactly.

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Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:37 pm
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Irtehdar wrote:
What I was wondering about, as Im about to play in a small tourney with players outside my regular group, is shooting in turn 1 even though you know it will fail accepted in general? Dont want to start out with a bad score for sportsmanship on day 1.


Its as exactly as sporting as measuring and taking note of the distances between all the bits of terrain on the table before the game, saying you sent out a surveying party the night before.

Its exactly as sporting as marking and noting the range of each guess weapon shot saying you can see where it landed ana are just recording the setting you have already used in the game.

Expect a big fat 0 for your sportsmanship score.

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:49 pm
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Rabidnid wrote:

Its as exactly as sporting as measuring and taking note of the distances between all the bits of terrain on the table before the game, saying you sent out a surveying party the night before.


Granted--totally unsporting.

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Its exactly as sporting as marking and noting the range of each guess weapon shot saying you can see where it landed ana are just recording the setting you have already used in the game.

Expect a big fat 0 for your sportsmanship score.


I don't find this second one all that bad. How is noting it down any worse than remembering it on your own (which, you must agree, is totally fine)?
I mean, suppose you forget the special rules of one of your units. Is it unsporting to look up the rule?

I don't think 'iron-trap memory' should be a condition of good sportsmanship. If somebody fires a stone thrower 37" last time, why can't they write down 'I shot my stone thrower 37"?' Would you complain if they wrote down 'I moved my Cavalry 7"?' Seems a bit extreme to me.

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:44 pm
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I believe Rabidnid meant putting self-made markers on the table saying "this is where I guessed 48" with my catapult", "this is where I guessed 12" with my cannon" and so on.

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:44 pm
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Dude, i wouldnt it gives you a look to see roughly how far your opponents army is away, which most people me included see as unfair and vergine ong cheating, especiall if you know damn well that you cant reach but you shoot anyway!

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:30 pm
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jenova210 wrote:
Dude, i wouldnt it gives you a look to see roughly how far your opponents army is away, which most people me included see as unfair and vergine ong cheating, especiall if you know damn well that you cant reach but you shoot anyway!


Yes, but you get to see how far, too. It is a double benefit, and therefore I see no real problem with it. Sometimes you might be unclear as to whether an enemy unit is 24" or 25" away. Are you 'cheating' or acting 'unsportsmanlike' when you try to shoot and fail? No.

This comes under the same umbrella of 'when is it unethical to declare a charge', and the line is pretty fuzzy. People won't care if I declare a charge with my warriors and the enemy is 12" away, but they will care if I charge and they are 18" away. This shooting issue is in the same boat but, unlike charges, there is almost no downside for either party involved. In a charge, rules like Fear and the declared charge reaction can potentially muck up your opponent unfairly, especially if declared from across the board. In shooting, however, nothing happens--you just miss, and both sides have a better idea of which one is where.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as unsporting. It's like a free trade of information on the battlefield. Honestly, I wouldn't do it just because I don't want my enemy to have that info, not because I think it gives me some kind of advantage.

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:44 pm
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Cheating is pulling something clearly against the rules. There are no rules against shooting (or charging) at something blatantly out of range. You choose your target and measure the range. If it's out of range, too bad, you miss.

That said, I still would not fire for range. After enough games, a player should have a good sense of how far 24 inches is (plus or minus a couple of inches). By firing for range, your opponent now knows exactly where your threat envelope is. I, for one, really don't want him to have that information.

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Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:47 pm
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I can't see any reason why you can't attempt to shoot something that is out of range, Some of us are less able at judging distance and i have often thought things were too far away when I could have charged or shot at them.

Generally though you should know how far your opponent is setting up and most bows will easily cover that distance so it more just seems a waste of time to check on turn 1

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Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:09 am
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Feel free to shoot to measure distance anytime... but turn one. You *know* there is more than 24" between two closest opposed units so unless you have crossbows/empire handguns/longbows you *know* you're out of range, no guessing involved.

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Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:37 pm
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