Is there any point in taking them against dwarves. I use them like most, to march block and generally pester opponents, but you can't march block dwarves and T3 shots hit them on 5's. So, do they serve a purpose against the stunties that is not so readily apparent that you couldn't do cheaper with shades or harpies?

Getting to their warmachine in no time, flanking some of his shooting like, flanking or backstabbing a unit that you want to charge from the front.


They are pure support against Dwarves.

you can do that cheaper with a unit of harpies who get there even faster than fast cav.

Having played a majority of my games against dwarves, I'm begininng to think I could use the points to put more models on the table and combo charge with something that might deal more wounds.

Harpies don't have S4 on the charge, which makes a big difference against dwarfs. Rarely have I found that I've been able to wipe out a dwarf war machine with harpies, but then again, maybe my rolling just sucks. Still, having something fast that can negate ranks (and sometimes draw out an oathstone on its own) is an important component to the army.

I prefer using harpies to screen my main units from shooting instead of trying to kill anything with my harpies.

They are Core. They negate ranks. They hit harder.

I think their uses are pretty obvious...

Not really, generally you start a battle 24" apart, Harpies might move 2" further but this is irrelevant as if you go first neither unit can reach the enemy and if they go first both units can reach the enemy.

I have found it is difficult to use Dark Riders to hunt their warmachines as they often deploy them in the middle of their warriors where you can't get to them.
ieW=warrior O=organ gun
WWWW WWWW
WWWW O WWWW
WWWW WWWW

Your skirmishers can't get in there to knock it out.

Then you have two opportunities. If they are flush, charge all three units and hope for some kills on the crew (or get really lucky and win ) and you break (or maybe you stick all three units - also a pretty good deal) and likely don't get run down - if you do, well, you've drawn those dwarfs a good ways back from their lines and messed up their plans fairly significantly. The other opportunity is that with the units so close together, the LOS on the war machine is much reduced. Any way you cut it, its a good thing.

Dark Riders have never done a lot for me against Dwarves. Yet again, not much ever does anythingn against them. BLOODY RUNES.

You can't out shoot them.
You can't out magic them.
You can't make them flee easily.
You can't beat them in combat easily (esp with S3 elves).

Cold Ones are your best bet. They hit hard.
RBTs are good too as they get rid of the rank bonuses easily.
Lots of cheap infantry is good too. Try to win through numbers, not wounds. Dont equip them with shields, even with shields they get no save whatsoever against Dwarf shooting.


If you do want to use Dark Riders, no crossbows and march them to the flank. They cant rotate quickly enough, smash them in the side where it hurts. They dont have to win. They have to stay in combat. As long as possible so the rest of fyour army doesn't get shot up as much.

And dont use one or two units. Go three or four. Give them something to worry about.


PS Crossbows... not good against dwarves. 50 shots at Thunders and no kills. Not worth it.

cold ones are the best calvary unit you can use against dwarves. half of the games i have played is against dwarves and the only thing that can beat a cold one night in (movement + strength + attacks) is a dragon, DR may out move them but M+S+A overall is far supperior.

a dragon is great, but like most people, everyone i play with one on the field they always target that first. it is an expensive but guranteed way of getting rid of artillery but if it dies you lose a lot of points so cold ones are in practice better

I personally think Dark Riders are excellent against Dwarfs, because they negate rank bonuses, which is critical to Dwarfs winning combats (Dwarfs win through CR more than kills usually).

You can so out shoot them. It involves bringing along a cheesy City Guard list, but it can be done. See how your dwarf opponent reacts when you bring out 8 RBTs and a whack of repeater crossbows (and nothing else). It can be a good way to teach a gun line opponent a lesson.

Using magic against dwarfs isn't necessarily a no-no. You can actually be quite successful in many cases. I recall one game where I managed to get no less than 5 magic missiles off in one magic phase (2 chillwinds, 3 doombolts) and I only had 7 dice and a bound item.

Besides, by using magic, your opponent either needs to suck it up or spend some points of his own on serious magic defence - either way, its a plus on your end.

I'm afraid I agree with Demetrius the Betrayer. Dwarves are just a bad matchup for us. Our gunline versus theirs - we lose. Our magic versus their anti-magic - we lose. Our close combat versus theirs and we again lose. COKs are the only can opener we have for dwarves. And when they're done, you're done.

2000pt Anti-Dwarf list

HB
Dragon
HA,Shield,SDC
Heartstone
Blade of Ruin - 558
^ Good for wreaking havoc and getting those high strength attacks you desperately need, fast

BM
Manti
Lance,LA,SDC - 242
^ Good for more high strength attacks and support, fast

5 DR rxb, mus - 127
5 DR rxb, mus - 127
5 DR rxb, mus - 127
^ Fast, good support with a potent charge, good for multiple charges; also the rxbs are qestionable but I have found that they are pretty good against Thunderers and Slayers

6 COK FC
Warbanner - 244
^ Hard hitting hammer, fast, decent combat res; keep near general and they shouldn't have any "stupid" problems

6 Shades - 84
^ Harassing small, lightly armoured units; good at annoying Thunderers and Slayers as well as War Machine Crews

7 Harpies - 91
^ Screening your units and hunting War Machines

4 RBT - 400
^ Good at killing dwarfs

Total - 2000[/i]

With that list, there would be many a call of cheese in your direction. I know because I've did something very similar for a pretty long time. It works though.