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Creating an annoying Dark Elf Army 
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Executioner
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 4:52 pm
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Location: Maryland
My goal here is to create one of those army's that never really gets into combat with anyone. It also should not sit back and shoot and everyone either though. It has to be mobile yet effective and not allowing the opponent to get into combat while still killing off a few each turn. My basic idea would be

Core
2 Units of 10 CB Warriors (220)
2 Units of 5 CB Dark Riders (240)

Special
2 Units of 10 Shades (280)
1 Unit of 9 Manflayers (363)
1 Unit of 8 Harpies (104)
1 Unit of 5 COK's (145)
(Just in case I can't avoid combat)

Rare
2 Bolt Throwers (200)
1 War Hydra (225)
(Has Breath Weapon Causes Terror = Good)

Heroes
2 L2 Wizards with Scrolls/Stones (320)

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Thu May 01, 2008 7:51 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
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drop warriors, add more dark riders
drop knights
drop bolt throwers, add second hydra
find place for dragon
you will have my annoying army of doom :P it works, Dragon and hydrae work together while everything else annoys the enemy to hell and back. Played correctly your only weakness is shooting and magic heavy armies.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Thu May 01, 2008 10:21 pm
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Dark Rider

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:56 am
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Post 
also try a modle with heartseeker great for killing skimishers, indivual characters, and basically anythgin lightly armoured.


Thu May 01, 2008 11:16 pm
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Dragon Lord
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I use noble on pegasus on that, so only one scroll caddy in my army but it proved to be more than enough so far.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu May 01, 2008 11:47 pm
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Executioner
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That sounds like it could work, I'm a little scared of taking a dragon with so few points. I feel like I'm putting all my eggs in one basket with that one. If my highborn gets hit with a cannonball or 30 arrows he may not be as effective. 2 Hydras in the same army sounds very fun though!

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Fri May 02, 2008 1:33 pm
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Highborn

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:30 pm
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Don't worry to much about the dragon, he can fly so he should be able to stay out of LoS of any cannons the first turns. After that, there shouldn't be any cannons left standing anyway ;)


Fri May 02, 2008 3:38 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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What you're pretty much looking for is a mobile missile platform. They work pretty well, all in all, but against certain armies they are doomed (most static armies for example).

To that end, big units of shades are a bad idea as they are more difficult to scout and actually represent a decent target to go after with MMs, template weapons, etc. A couple small units are just as good since the idea is that you want to make choosing targets a problem for your opponent (so you make all your units cheap). The manflayers are also a poor option as half their cost is associated with their combat abilities, so its not really worth it for poisoned RXB bolts. 8 harpies is also a bit too much and the hydra is sort of a so-so choice.

Though I agree that a dragon is annoying to deal with, it represents an inherently combat-oriented unit. There are better options that accomplish the same sort of thing. If you want a "true" sort of mobile missile platform, go for something like this:

Noble on steed with armour and enchanted shield
He's just there for the Ld and survivability, so keep him cheap but mobile.

L2 Sorc on steed with doomstick
L2 sorc on steed with cloak and scroll
L2 sorc with seal and scroll
Magic is key in this sort of a list. The idea being that you likely take death magic for the MMs. With this army, you will get 3 castings of a small MM on 2 dice plus a casting of hopefully a big MM on 3 dice and then the bound doombolt. Its a farily significant threat.

5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus
5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus
5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus
5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus
5 Dark Riders, mus

These guys represent flank threats and lots of mobile small arms fire. After a concentrated magic phase, more concentrated shots can wipe out the rest of small units or can cause panic in the same units as before.

10 RXBmen, shields
Something static and shooty to keep near the RBTs.

6 harpies
5 shades
5 shades

Stuff that gets in the way quickly and still has some potency for threats of various sorts (mostly crossfire).

2 chariots
You generally want something hanging around that can exert an area of combat control (or a threat zone, ZoC, etc). A pair of chariots are excellent at doing that. I've had a pair of chariots (with a lucky roll) take out a unit of 4 rhinox riders, so most people will look at them as a credible threat that they need to avoid if possible.

2 RBTs
They may be static, but that helps you even in a mobile list. A mobile list excels at dividing up an enemy force, and what better way than to use them as bait in the backfield? It'll take 4 or 5 turns for an infantry unit to get there and it'll be slowed, turned around, or outright destroyed by the rest of the army, so it serves to divide things up a bit more. Keep the RXBmen nearby for some infantry support and added close support firepower.

You'll notice that aside from the L2s, every unit is under 130 pts. Spreads your points out and helps keep you going late into the game if things go wrong.

All in all, in a typical turn you'll have the capability to unleash 6D6 S4 MMs, D6 S5 MM, 12 S4 AP shots, and 80 S3 repeater shots. That's a lot of firepower and its highly mobile.

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Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Manflayers, Shades and RxB Dark Riders sounds great. Never tried the option of two Hydras but it should be good :twisted: . What I can tell you about the dragon is that you need to combine it with some Dark Peggy to do the "canon job". Hiding your Dragon even one turn is never a very good solution : so my advice is try to fit in a Peggy (mounted by a noble or a beastie master if you lack the points) and have him get rid of those canons as fast as possible. Of course it will get shot at but that's a canonball not going on your Dragon and an additional chance of misfire... :twisted: Love misfires (evil laugh) HAHAHA !

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Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 pm
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Executioner
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The Mobile Missle Platform is indeed what I was looking for. Sadly to say and I'm sorry for this but I only own 10 Dark Riders right now, so that will have to suffice. I understand what you are saying about the hydra and dragon though as they are both combat orriented. I'm more into having an army that does not want to get into combat. Any idea what I can do with the points saved on taking 2 units of dark riders rather than 5? The rest sounds great, I actually think that beefing up one of those L2 sorceresses to Level 4 would serve me well. I know that I lose 3 units of Dark Riders, but at this state I'm willing to sacrifiece them for alot of Magic instead. I could also have a unit of RXB that sits back with the other unit you suggested. But yes that's what I was looking for. I also like the idea of taking the noble and putting him on a steed of some sort, possibly in one of the chariots.

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Fri May 02, 2008 5:00 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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jayferd22 wrote:
Any idea what I can do with the points saved on taking 2 units of dark riders rather than 5? The rest sounds great, I actually think that beefing up one of those L2 sorceresses to Level 4 would serve me well. I know that I lose 3 units of Dark Riders, but at this state I'm willing to sacrifiece them for alot of Magic instead. I could also have a unit of RXB that sits back with the other unit you suggested. But yes that's what I was looking for. I also like the idea of taking the noble and putting him on a steed of some sort, possibly in one of the chariots.


Its a shame about the DR units since that is in fact the way to get it done, fragile as it may be. Upgrading one of the sorcs to a lord is an idea, but I don't think its all that worthwhile as it puts a lot of strain on your character choices (you'd be up around 40% characters doing that - which is the same as if you added in a dragon but without getting the dragon ;) ) for marginally more gain. And it starts bringing you into the realm of truly magic heavy lists which can be a poor way to go, especially if you don't want to alienate players. Most players get upset in general having to play a list they can't engage - to have that list also dominate in the magic phase puts many people off.

If you need to make space for 350 odd points that you wouldn't have, you almost have to go to RoR or DoW and the like or else add to your core units (couple units of corsairs maybe). My suggestion at that point would be either a giant or a unit of 4 leadbelchers plus another unit of RXBmen. Of course, 3 rhinox riders would also do it... The giant, like the chariots, would be something to take fire and threaten a particular zone of the table you want to control.

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Fri May 02, 2008 6:15 pm
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Executioner
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Thanks for the insight, I'll consider those options as well when I build this, I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

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Fri May 02, 2008 6:22 pm
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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jayferd22: This is a list that has worked fairly well for me. IMO it has a good mix of shooting and combat with very mobile units as well as some "focus" stuff like the warriors and RBTs that will be given more attention then they deserv due to the fact that it the only stuff my opponents can catch. It's not as shooty or magicy as Vorchilds list but it has alot more combat potential and is how I like to play. It also alows you to leapfrog terrain and focus force on key enamy units that could give you problems. You can make it abit stronger in the magic department by dropping the nobles for a dragon upgrade and 2 lvl2 mages if you want with scrolls and the doombolt stick, oh and making the hydra a spellthirster to help protect your manflayers and other skirmishers. But I prefer the added threts of 3 flying heros and a fastmoving hydra/DR unit.

I'm not sure if this is something you would like to play with but it works and is pretty fun to use. Also depending on your gameing sceen you might want to bulk up on magic deff, but the norm here is ETC style 9PD and thats fairly easy to deal with using only a caddy.


Heros
1 Highborn, General, Lance, Ha, sdc, Shield, Gauntlet of Power, Crown of Black Iron, Manticore. 434 Pts

1 Noble, Lance, Ha, sdc, Shield, Lifetaker, Dark Pegasii. 171 Pts

1 Noble, Lance, Ha, sdc, Seal of Ghrond, Enchanted Shield, Dark Pegasii. 174 Pts

1 Sorceress, lvl1, 2* Dispel Scroll. 140 Pts

Core
5 Dark Riders, rbx, musician. 127 Pts

5 Dark Riders, rbx, musician. 127 Pts

10 Warriors, rbx, la, shields. 120 Pts

Special
6 Harpies. 78 Pts

5 Shades. 70 Pts

9+1 Mengil Manhide's Manflayers. 363 Pts

Rare
1 Veteran War Hydra. 245 Pts

2 Reaper Bolt Thrower. 200 Pts

Army Stats
Casting Pool: 3
Dispel Pool: 4 + 2 Scrolls
Models in Army: 57
Total Army Cost: 2249

/Johan R

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Fri May 09, 2008 12:18 pm
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Beastmaster

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:52 pm
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Location: portsmouth NH
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Dragon, Kitty and 2 Hydra with a bunch of Dark Riders with RXBs?

If you want to win by psychology thats a decent way to go a bout it... although your unit count is ridiculously low.

Peggy noble with Mask instead of Kitty and a L1 Sorc for caddy is a nifty alternative...


Jayfred the cheap way to build the dark riders collection is with Wood elf glade riders... just paint the horsies black and use left over RXB bits or Dark Elf spear arm bits from warrior boxes to make them more dark elfish. 8 for $35 is a pretty good deal compared to 5 for $50 :) $70 and you have 3 more units of DR :)


Fri May 09, 2008 12:52 pm
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Executioner
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I hadn't thought of that, sounds like a great idea to build up DR units.

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Fri May 09, 2008 12:54 pm
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Executioner
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Other than the RXB is there anything else I would need to add to them? I'm going to go pick up two boxes after work

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Fri May 09, 2008 1:00 pm
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Beastmaster

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Well they have bare Shins... but if you just paint them pants color its no big deal... they are just wearing hose or Tight pants.

I believe the cloak bits that come with the GR have hoods on them... but if they don't a lot of people who have done this have opted to use a little greenstuff to put hoods on them to make them look more druchii and scary. Others have used surplus Warrior heads to get that added druchii feel... but honestly that wicked looking spear the warriors use is plenty druchii for me. You should have plenty of left over Dark Elf trumpets from warrior boxes to make a couple musicians also.


Fri May 09, 2008 1:05 pm
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Executioner
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I actually sadly have used all of my warrior bits on Shade and Manflayer conversions, However, I do need 16 more spearmen so I was going to pick up a box of those as well and just use the left over RXB's. I do have alot of left over heads though. This should actually work quite well I think. I can use a xacto blade to carve the wood elf spears to look more druchii.

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Fri May 09, 2008 1:14 pm
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