wth 20 points extra for the same thing!!!!!!!

Grez90 · Post by **Grez90** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:18 pm

can somebody please explain to me how the heartrender weapon is worth 20 points more than the deathpeircer, as they do the same thing??

i know some people will say that because shes a mage its worth more, or just because its morathi etc. but how can they possibly justify the points gap, i could understand 5 points gap, but 20!!!!...its nearly double the cost.

are GW actually that thick that because its on a different page, they'll think nobody will notice, or did they even notice???

Melinia · Post by **Melinia** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:52 pm

grez90 wrote:can somebody please explain to me how the heartrender weapon is worth 20 points more than the deathpeircer, as they do the same thing??

What are you talking about? Heartrender is free. It's included as a free option in Morathi's profile. What makes you think it costs 20 points more than Deathpiercer?

Edit - I stand corrected. Apparently you do have to pay for her weapons, something that's not noted on her fluff/rules page, but only in her army list entry.

Druchiishootlord · Post by **Druchiishootlord** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:30 am

Very simple. She's a special character and you'll find that special characters will tend to pay more points for things than normal characters would have to. Honestly I see no problem with this at all.

Now I know I haven't been with the game as long as other people here but I'm sure to those that aren't very new have come to expect things like that.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:34 am

yes, GW made a cock-up, they really didnt think that one through at all

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:57 am

Not really, she is a special character, she is a mage, she shouldn't be in combat anyway. So just don't take the upgrade if you take her at all.

Vonkrieglitz · Post by **Vonkrieglitz** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:26 am

She has 3A, WS5, and Eternal Hatred. Her charging in with S5 and Killing Blow is a whole lot more dangerous than any other Wizard I know of (and she just so happens to also be the best sorceress in the entire book to boot, and has a Pegasus that also charges at S5).

For being a Magic User, Heartrender sure makes her pretty good in combat... worth the extra 20 points you have to pay to have a Sorceress that can actually kill stuff in a scrap.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:35 am

I would take it for both the reasons VonKreiglitz said and because... well... its me!

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:55 am

Funnier to take the dark sword and a potion of strength IMO...

Patrizzo · Post by **Patrizzo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:00 am

grez90 wrote:heartrender weapon is worth 20 points more than the deathpeircer, as they do the same thing??

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, they do not do the same thing. Heartrender's killing blow only works when Morathi charges, while Deathpiercer's works in every turn. So of course Morathi has to pay more, her weapon is clearly better! :roll:

Amarel · Post by **Amarel** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:15 am

VonKrieglitz wrote:She has 3A, WS5, and Eternal Hatred. Her charging in with S5 and Killing Blow is a whole lot more dangerous than any other Wizard I know of

Which in turn is not quite as good as the stats of a Master, for example, who pays the lower price for the superior Deathpiercer. (just playing Devil's advocate here...)

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:34 am

She is the best wizard in Naggaroth and she has WS5 and 3A. Paying a little extra to allow her to also be the only mage with a lance and killing blow is still a bargain.

Saithis · Post by **Saithis** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:18 am

so you think wizards have to play more for a magic weapon? or just additional points for every attack above 1? :roll:

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:22 am

Both often times...and the combination of the two in this case.

Saithis · Post by **Saithis** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:17 am

how many attacks does a chaos (mortal for example) sorc have? i know what you are meaning, but i don't think GW ever made this difference before...

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:41 am

Hi,

yes it costs more - but see it is a measurement for balancing. At some characters, especially special ones, some magic items have a higher value. That is same like some units with similar stats cost quite different in the different armybooks - the enviroment in which an item or unit could be used affects highly the usage of it, and because of this also the point costs.

yes, GW made a cock-up, they really didnt think that one through at all

For this weapon - the could have made Morathi without the option and nobody would have get upset. Now they offer the option and there are complaints - it is an option, if you thing 20 points are too much, just skip that option. I am sure some people will be glad that she could take a magical weapon and pay the price.

P.S. Please try to post posts and not just chat :-)

Grez90 · Post by **Grez90** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:14 pm

the thing i don't like is having to choose at all, i would take darksword, because its just funnier anyway, plus potion of strength is nasty, charge a slann n u'll be needing 3's n 3's, and if you wound him, he dies, as slanns have 1 attack.

the thing i'm also wondering, what do you do against lord kroak, who starts with basic 0 attacks, does he die if you touch him lol. joke, i know he wouldn't

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:27 pm

[LLCT]Kain wrote:
yes, GW made a cock-up, they really didnt think that one through at all
For this weapon - the could have made Morathi without the option and nobody would have get upset. Now they offer the option and there are complaints - it is an option, if you thing 20 points are too much, just skip that option. I am sure some people will be glad that she could take a magical weapon and pay the price.

i meant they made a mistake not in points costs, but in the fact the two weapons do the exact same thing. Heartrender should be slightly better IMO.

Grez90 · Post by **Grez90** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:32 pm

possibly +2 bonus all the time?

Druchiishootlord · Post by **Druchiishootlord** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:42 am

I don't think that the Heartrender should be any better. It is in fact worse but as I said before...she's a special character. Special characters regularly pay more points for things that everyone else pays a lower price for. It's a simple fact of the matter that we have to deal with. It happens.

In addition to this she's now the most potent close combat mage that isn't a Greater Demon in the game.

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:09 am

Having reveiwed my new army book I cannot understand anyone complaning about Morathi. She costs 455 + 45 for heartrender gets her to 500 pts.

In 6th edition Morathi cost 470 pts.

7th edition Morathi has hatred that with her 3 attacks is actually useful, MR2 up from MR1. Keeps her ward save, ld based WS effect, and keeps +1 to cast.

Arcane items that give +1 to cast (that are not otherwise available to DE) are usually priced at 40-50 pts, the MR1 null shard is 15 pts. Thats 55-65 pts of additional abilities she has in 7th edition for essentially zero additional costs.

This does not even consider the option to take up to 100 points in either a arcane and/or an enchanted item.

She is still a bargain and now with the option to include a dispel scroll, crystal of midnight, etc. she lives up to her fluff as the supreme sorceress in the game and power behind the throne of her Witch King son.

Dggrj · Post by **Dggrj** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:41 am

You can't really say keeps +1 to cast, she lost +1 to cast since she dropped from +2 to cast. And then even though you said "keeps" you counted the points for it! Nonono...

However, yes, the ability to give her extra items is very nice, but makes her damned expensive.

Special chars do typically pay more, just as lords pay more than heroes pay more than troops. Though I don't see why in this case it makes sense, as I don't want my 500pt MAGE in combat, even if she's decent at it. Just about the only things I'd charge would be units of 5-10 foot troops in the flank if they're not stubborn or better (undead) and don't have a banner, just to make sure they break and don't pin my (again) 500pt MAGE in combat by luck. So do I think I should pay extra over a noble who's supposed to be in combat?

No sir, I do not.

Entreri · Post by **Entreri** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:56 am

Just give her a black staff and she can pretty much cast all Dark lore spells

Btw she doesn't have the 100 max point cost for the arcane or enchanted items she can pick, so you can really boost her!

I for 1 am a very happy camper with our new book and special characters, though not perfect

cheers.

Vonkrieglitz · Post by **Vonkrieglitz** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:45 pm

Mordru wrote:7th edition Morathi has hatred that with her 3 attacks is actually useful, MR2 up from MR1. Keeps her ward save, ld based WS effect, and keeps +1 to cast.

Arcane items that give +1 to cast (that are not otherwise available to DE) are usually priced at 40-50 pts, the MR1 null shard is 15 pts. Thats 55-65 pts of additional abilities she has in 7th edition for essentially zero additional costs.

This does not even consider the option to take up to 100 points in either a arcane and/or an enchanted item.

She is still a bargain and now with the option to include a dispel scroll, crystal of midnight, etc. she lives up to her fluff as the supreme sorceress in the game and power behind the throne of her Witch King son.

Agreed but some ammendments here: she isn't restricted to 100 points of additional magic items, so it's any Arcane + any Enchanted with 0 restrictions.

Also, yes, a Deathpiercer is useful on a Master who is going to have a higher WS, and higher S. However, your Master isn't also one of the best magic users in the game. High Elves can pay 45 points to make one of their combat heroes a Lv1 mage. We pay 45 points to make our BEST mage almost as good of a fighter as a Master... I mean if you feel cheated I invite you to give your Supreme Sorceress the Deathpiercer by all means... with that great 1 WS4 attack...

Grez90 · Post by **Grez90** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:57 pm

but i hate how gw change the points for everything, i'm paying for the weapon, not for the stats of the person i'm putting it on....i just think its weird, lords n heroes pay the same for magic weapons n stuff, but not for mundane...and yes i understand that i'll pay more for morathi, but i'm not shoving my mage who knows 6 spells into combat, simply because she'll forget 2 of em, unless she uses familiar, n i wouldn't buy that for her either...i'm a morathi plus black staff man

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:04 pm

@ dggrj

I undesrtand your point about her being in combat no one should consider sending her into combat by herself and unsupported. Having he strong combat ability avaiable allows you the means to support other efforts in close combat. It alos means that things like furies and fell bats, etc... are going to have a tough time holding her in place as long as she gets the charge.

@ VonKrieglitz

I stand corrected it does not say she is limited to 100 pts so she can go with the deathmask and PoD staff. Although I would be tempted to give her the focus familar and the death mask to further enhance the opportunites to use her in combat.

wth 20 points extra for the same thing!!!!!!!

wth 20 points extra for the same thing!!!!!!!

Re: wth 20 points extra for the same thing!!!!!!!

Re: wth 20 points extra for the same thing!!!!!!!