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High Sorceress on Dragon 
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Corsair

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 pm
Posts: 76
Its the first thingk to catch my eye in the new rumors compiled on this site conserning our new book. The afromentioned High Sorceress on Dragon.

It is also the one model did not have in my dark elf army. (well, I no longer technically have the black guards longer either, afther I converted them into cold one knights in last edition as they were not used on foot. .never ever.. how could I know what were to bee their brigth future?)

Well, I started earlier today, and have been working on it for 6 hours straight now, but alas I have created a dragon =)

The wings remain, as I first have to find my greenstuff in order to complete them, but this is beside the point. Although Id thought I`d mention that is acually not very hard at all to make your own monsterlike units. And the hyadras up next =)

Pictures will be posted when I can find a working digitalcamera. :oops:

Well to the point. Anyone had the chanse to try out our new dragonriding Sorceress yet?

I was very much tempted to proxy her for a trial game, but resisted and shall remain myself :D

But now as the dragon has ben hatched, so to speak, and soon is ready to try out its wings, Im eager to hear what others has experienced with her.

My thoughts are not suprisingly to give her the focus familiar, pendant, scroll and tome of furion.

As support a lvl 2 with dagger, and scroll, and thats more or less the start of the list, what else Im going to include, is as of yet somehwat in the blue.


So anyone tried her out yet? Let us know =)


Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:31 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:03 am
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Location: Lincoln, UK
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Unfortunatly, you can't have the Tome and Familiar, as they are both arcane items.

Personally, the only flying mount I'd use for a caster is the dark peg. The dragon wants to be in combat, but the sorceress doesn't, even with the focus familiar. The pendant gives her some protection, but a volley of Str3 shooting, or ending up locked in combat with Str3 units, can easily kill her.

I can understand the use of the dragon as a babysitter - after all, not many units will want to try mage hunting when she's on Fluffy, but it's an expensive babysitter, and some people (like me!) would be happy to sacrifice a unit or two to kill a lord level caster.

Try her on a peg with the familiar, then she can hide behind things and the enemy cpuld spend all the game not seeing her!

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Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:37 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 pm
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About the fimodragon. Its my 2nd attemt at making something in fimo. The first I did was a Armourplated beast to work as a steamtank in my empire army. And I remembered that I have pictures of that online.


Last edited by Strollinthewoods on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:42 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I personally think the High Sorceress on Dragon has great potential. It takes more finesse then a 1+ save, ward and or regeneration decked out lord, but can potentially be far more devastating. Its essentially a risk/reward thing. :)

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Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:38 pm
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Corsair

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MY thoughts exaclty lord tareq. You dont go head baning into the thoughtes unit in the playground with the sorceress dragon, but she is leathal in flanks, and can handle most supportunits with ease.

Tnx for pointing out the tome of furion conflict with the familiar though, The Adept. Guess Ive got 15 pts to spend =)

With the focus familiar and pendant, the thing is that Im not having fluffy there to just protect the sorceress.. fluffy is going to get some exersice tearing tiny ones to shreds =) As hth no longer stops you from casting magic, it is no reason why your sorceress should stay out of hth. I will send her up a flank looking for support units, and warmashines, that can be taken out. And in later turns you start looking for those rears, and flanks.

Ive put together a list that is a somewhat unusuall ( i think) build.

High sorceress on dragon, srcoll, familiar, pendatn 665
sorceress lvl 2 sroll, dagger 185
Hag Queen Cualdron of Blood 200

20 wariors stand, mus 135
5 harpies 55
5harpies 55
5 dark riders with rxb 110
5 dark riders 85

7 shades gw 126
7 shades gw 126

1 warhydra 175
1 warhydra 175

asassin extra hand weapon, rune of khain, cloak of stead of shadows 146

just below 2250 in total pts.


The element that is somewhat unusuall in this build would be the culadron.
As there are ... like 0 khainite units in this build. So the reason for its presence is becouse of the shades. This list has yet to leave the paper, and battle it out in the real worls of imaginary fantasy battles, so it is to early to say if my reasoning will turn out to be a solid one or not. But here it is anywas.

The 200 pts I pay for the Cualdron is to make the shades into my hard hitters in addition to the hydras and the Dragon. I "need" more hard hitters than just the monsters, and the shades are what Im going for.

The only "easy" target, is the warrior unit, witch I think will prove to be truly hard to get to when all the rest of my army is everywere, and nowere. And the more I think about it, the more Im convinsed that I want a dark steed on that lvl 2. As the warriorblock only is measly 135 pts... its ok jump ship, if things get though, and possibly find refuge in a dark rider unit instead.

besides, with the tome of furion gone, i almost got the pts needed to the steed.

Hopefully I get to test this in a game in the near future.


Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:28 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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The dargon lady build looks good. I am not sure your going to be happy with the cauldron in this list. Those 200 pts would go a long way toward adding some meat to this list. You have very few units and that will hurt you in the deployment phase and very few good targets for the cauldron. You may not be able to scout the shades and still have them in range of the cauldron. If you don't scout them, at least on unit, you are giving up a large portion of their tactical utility.

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Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:40 am
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I'd also add that nothing in your list gives rank bonus except the spearelves which you're going to be killing off. I'd drop the hag and cauldron, and add another block of spearelves, and possibly add some extra numbers to the block the sorceress is going to join.

I like the equipment you've given the dragon sorceress - it makes her survivable and she can still cast in combat thanks to the familiar. I'd suggest she always takes either dark or death so she can heal wounds/gain extra.


Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:41 am
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Corsair

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 pm
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Originally I had a unit of crossbowmen to work togheter with the warrior unit. But exeeded 2250 sith 142 pts.. and they were darn hard to get rid of without removing an entire unit.. and I came to the conclusion that of the units in this list, the one with the least importance was the crossbow unit.

The thing is that I still think that the cualdrons will pay for itself. And that its can turn out to be worth the 200 pts it costs. When the shades go hunting its important that they actually do the job I send them to, And if the cualdron is what is needed then in that turn thats worth it.

The differense bewteen charging in with the shades and not breaking the unit, and loosing the entire shade unit, and charging in, knowing its almost sertian that I will break the target,.. posibly cause panictests, and pursue into positions that threathen other parts of the battlefield.

This is the reason for the cualdron. I could have gotten somehting els for 200 but dont see what that would be that is better than making the shades into killing machines, in adition to the wardsave buffs you always will be casting if nothing else is imporrant. It also makes the dark riders much more leathal.

Can anyone with the book tell me if you can cast the cualdron effect on monsters.. aka the hydras? I only have the rumors, and they say: mounts and creatures pulling a chariot' and harpies
Is the hydras in or are they out, so to speak. Does not matter to much, as they are already buff enough, though killingblow would be somewhat nice.

The cloak on the assassin, is if I see the possibility to make a fly charge out of the shade unit, and into warmachines, and the like. And yes, I am considering giving him the manbane, just to go after big monsters. Giants and the like. I am also curious to wether the manbane of this edition still has a str cap at 6. (if I remember corectly)

The thought beeing, that you charge out with the cloak, to take down the nasties you need to get rid of. But when I think about it it will be difficult to give the assassin the cualdron buffs when he goes out on his own. I think I have read a disusion on buffs on units, that they in no way apply to heroes when they leave the unit.. OR can you choose? If I cast killingblow on the shades when the assassin is in it, and the assassin charges out to execute a lord, can you choose to have the buff follow the assassin, and not stay with the shades?

If this is not the case, you wont get any buffs on the assassin when he is witht the shades. The buffs are made before you can move, so no way to separate him from the unit the turn you want to charge before the shades get the buff instead of him.

The harpies will fly close to the High Sorceress, not suprisingly. Getting to use ld 9 on them are just to good to miss.. Together they will go up a flank hunting for weakspots.

The rest of the army.. when i mount the lvl 2.. will not be easy in any way to get a hold on.

The assassin should also be able to after the enemies magicdefense is starting to crack, fly from one shade unit to the other.

It shall be interesting to see what can get past 2 hydras, backed up with a unit of harpies... You can put one of the hydras out front, place the harpies inbetween the hydra and its opponents, and have the other one slightly back ready to countercharge, if it comes to that. You must watch out for the cascading rule in 7 ed, but other that that, its pretty darn though to get past this. As hydras are reliable, and there is no way the will not move,,, or even take a panic test becouse of the beast rule of the harpies.. Im seeing them doing this when faced with hostile units.

When you meet to though units, you start looking for the weak spots you can take. And thats what I dont want to have in my list. So what they will see is probably the 20 ish unit with lvl 2.. And after the mage leaves the unit, thats just 135 pts.

Im pretty convinsed that the Culadron will be more worth it than 200 pts put into other units, becouse it counts when it matters the most, when the shades go to battle. And gives buffs every turn besides that. But feel free to sugest other uses of this pts. But I think you would have to reedo, most of the list, to make good use of those 200 pts.

I was considering 2 chariots for a while, or a unit of cok.. but I do belive they would be the weak spots in the list. Besides dark riders of course, as they always are fragile like the autumn leaves.


Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:35 am
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Corsair

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 pm
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I just looked in the Dark elf book at the local GW shop. And it does indeed seem to me that you can cast the cualdron buffs onto the hydra unit if wish to.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Will be absolutely leathal with killingblow on that unit.


Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:03 pm
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Of course you can, you can even cast it on your chariot (killingblowing Impact hits). You can cast it on anything, except for mounts. No one's riding the hydra so it's all fine.

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Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:09 pm
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Corsair

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If I get the time, I will try to get the model ready painted for the august painting competition going on at the paining and model section of this forum.

Its not really relevant in this thread to post the pics of the dragon, and I should possibly have started a new thread in the painting section. But as I said I would post picutures when I got a chanse to take them, thats what I`ll do.

As a sidenote.. Tried it out yesterday. And the focus familiar truly is awsome to have on a dragonmage.


Image


Last edited by Strollinthewoods on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:02 pm
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Dragon Lord
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That is one awesome dragon, although the wings look rather weak and small compared to the rest.

Also I wouldn't mount a rider on the end of the neck, rather at its base where it meets the wings, so between wings and neck... simply because dragon has to move its neck around while flying, imaging what would it do to a rider stuck at its end.

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:01 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 pm
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I wonder if the Supreme sorceress on Dragon will be very common in 7 ed.
Compared to a Dreadlord, you get a pretty good deal. Granted you cant charge rank and file head on, as you will never get in the most optimistic frame of mind, 5kills from the dragon, and you need faith, to see the sorceress kill anything more that a snotling on a regular basis.

You are better that the old beastmaster on manticore, and much safer in terms of loosing cr by taking wounds in return as the beastmaster easily did if he got stuck.

But what you get, for a only about 100 more points that the Dreadlord, is a magicfase. Witch I think more and more people will start to apreciate. And you can get up close and personal, geting the most out of spells like soulstealer, becouse the dragon is such a sturdy creature.

So if you should debate, im actually more interested in hearing the arguments for taking the dreadlord. Becouse I am heavily biased in favor of the Supreme Sorceress as the most points efficient alternative.

And I think you are less likely to do anything "stupid" with her. As you know you are strong, but not yet ready to smash through concrete walls.

Of course, its the focus familiar, in perfect syncrony with the pendant, that makes her a not only viable, but actually good selection. Withouth even just 1 out of those 2 items, she would just fall down like a deck of cards, and be reserved for fluff bunnies only.


Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:50 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:26 am
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I wouldn't exactly call her "safe" with the pendant, but I will say:

Very nice dragon! ^_^

I like the size of the wings and the general bulkyness of it, I've always thought of dragons as big "animal tanks" rather than sleek "snakes with wings"...

The place where the wing joins with the body looks a bit weird, but all in all, a very nice model. :)


Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:25 am
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Assassin

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:13 am
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I really like your list! As soon as I heard of that combo I've been scheming to try it out. I think a problem you might have is actually protecting the cauldron because of the lack of a battle line. I think you need a few turns to soften them up before you engage.

Test it out a few times and let us know. I might even try out the list myself. Oh and put the lvl 2 in a unit of dark riders, it works great. And I'm a little confused about why you even include the warriors at all. Seems like with another unit of dark riders you could accomplish more and have an even more fluid army. Present the really weak center with just the cauldron and let them advance to their doom as you envelope them on the flanks with dragons, hydras, shades, dark riders...


Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:53 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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The warriors are for sacrificing, both with the dagger and to pull people towards the weak center. :)

Don't forget that Dark Riders are really good charging with +1 Attack, giving you even more options of hard hitters. :)


Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:14 am
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Love the sorceress on dragon photo, although I do agree that the wings look small and frail by comparison. Btw, that is one awesome and inspiring way to state "Large Target".

Is it on a chariot base or something the same size?

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Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:41 am
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Nice modelling work there! Very impressive scratch-build dragon...

I cheated and stole my Dragon from the High Elves :D

Anyway, I've tried out the High Sorceress on Dragon idea, and in true Druchii fashion did something unexpected. I gave her the Pendant of Khaeleth, a Hydra Blade and a Potion of Strength.

I won't go into the possibilities here, suffice to say it worked really well a couple of times and I'm going to have to run different lists for a bit so that it doesn't get anticipated next time I do it...


Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:09 pm
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an interesting concept, making a battle-sorceress. Compiled with a lvl 4 spellcasting ability and on a dragon, that would be nice.

One thing, though. Now that we have access to the Lore of Fire, would it be an idea to scrap the Hydra Blade (because you're chances of getting the Flaming Sword are 2 out of 3) and invest in some arcane to make her more of a deadly opponent in her proper field?

Just speculation, btw. I'll have to play around with it once I get the new book (damn it, it comes out tomorrow and i'm at the cottage :( )

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Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:04 am
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zavratatar wrote:
The warriors are for sacrificing, both with the dagger and to pull people towards the weak center. :)

Don't forget that Dark Riders are really good charging with +1 Attack, giving you even more options of hard hitters. :)


Ah makes sense now! :D I didn't see the dagger on that sorceress before. So yeah looks good now, still waiting to hear tales of glory and victory though :P


Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:09 am
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Why don't you give the sorceress a sword of might where you had the Tome of Furion before? It would a least make her a bit more viable in combat.

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Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:35 am
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