Viability of dual Levels 2s?

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:20 am

I was interested in hearing about players who have used two Level 2s in 200-2250 games and don't have the sacrificial dagger.

I'm currently running a dragon lord, and he's supported by a scroll caddy and Hydra Banner BSB with Cold One Knights. As an alternative though, I was thinking of two Level 2 Sorcs to support the dragon rider.

Now, the army I'm running is based around mobility, so there's no space for a warrior unit and therefore no space for sacrificial dagger. Have players found two Level 2 Sorcs to still be worthwhile without the sacrificial dagger?

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:18 pm

hearing about players who have used two Level 2s in 200-2250 games

Well at 200 points I struggle to fit in two sorceresses and the mandatory unit choices :lol:

On a more serious note - I use them all the time. They're brilliant if you ask me. The advantages of having them over one level 4 are numerous:

- You can take two arcane items
- You get two chances to cast power of darkness
- You have 33% more wounds

I usually equip one of them with the darkstar cloak and one with tome, and then chuck in two dispel scrolls. It allows for a moderately powerful to powerful magic phase (depending on their performance when casting power of darkness). I usually cast one or two low-level spells, then have a go at power of darkness with one dice, and then cast one big spell if I'm successful. If you get lucky, your moderate 4 magic levels pump out up to 13 power dice (though that doesn't happen very often). I rarely use the sacrificial dagger anyway, even though it is very useful (that one free dice is so handy that I sometimes almost felt like a cheat when I used it).

HUZZAH!

Crazy_elf_lady · Post by **Crazy_elf_lady** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:48 pm

2 lvl 2's is very powerful. Don't expect to be overwhelming your opponents magic defense on turn 1, but you will have decent magic defense yourself, and once some of the enemy wizards have been dealt with, your magic will become quite powerful.

Especially with Druchii sorcery. A lvl 2 throwing 4 dice at black horror is loads of entertainment.

My personal recommendation would be to try to fit the dagger in, as it will really help you maximize the effect of your lower number of power dice.

Lasthobbit · Post by **Lasthobbit** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:15 pm

My most used choice is a lv4+lv2 but in 2000-2500 games 2lv2 is quite enough. It makes the room for the dreadlord+BSB or DL on dragon and creates a strong magic phase: 3+2+2 PD and 4-5 DD + 1-2DS is good against most opponents.
lv2 can be mounted on peggy for greater mobility (second may ride on dark steed in the DR unit). 2lv2 is a good tactics (not ''heavymagic" but it is a solid and effective choice).
P.S. Dagger works better with lv4 - she simply have more spells so more chances to use that thing.

Rising son · Post by **Rising son** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:22 am

Taking 2 level 2s is an eminently viable tactic. If I go with a more powerful fighty lord, I almost always take them.

As others have noted above, there are a lot of benefits to taking them too. One more, that has been overlooked though, is that it splits the risk. If a lone L4 pops due to a miscast or gets killed then your magic phase is done. 2 L2s add in a bit of insurance.

2 models can also cover more of the board too. A further benefit, especially against shooty armies is being able to get 2 Chillwinds if you so desire.

Cheers
RS

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:23 am

I use same set up as Anderson, its very effective. it gives you a great magic defence as well as a powerful magic phase yourself especially once youv killed off an enemy wizard.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:29 am

My personal recommendation would be to try to fit the dagger in, as it will really help you maximize the effect of your lower number of power dice.

Probably not really a good idea because even if the dagger fits in, there still is the problem pointed out in the first post:

Now, the army I'm running is based around mobility, so there's no space for a warrior unit and therefore no space for sacrificial dagger.

If there's nothing to kill, there ain't no point in taking the sacrificial dagger, really. And killing off dark riders/knights etc. is not the world's best idea if you ask me.

HUZZAH!

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:40 am

What are you giving up though?

If you put in a dreadlord on dragon and then have the rest of yor army with no BSB and no leadership.

if your army is mostly dark riders and harpies as you implied with the comment about no sacrificial dagger then you might be OK. But your wizards might be vulnerable to things like harpies that kamikazi onto your sorceress and kill her.

So it needs to be taken in the context of the whole list.

Malfurion the fallen · Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:26 pm

you could also simply take one lv2 with two scrolls...and cast 1 spell on all 4 of your dice, going for the irresistable or a high casting value...and save some points for a peggy char. or a bsb.

Kabal · Post by **Kabal** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:19 pm

Maiden_of_Bodom wrote:Especially with Druchii sorcery. A lvl 2 throwing 4 dice at black horror is loads of entertainment.

this is really what saved my bacon tonight in a game. once i had a gobbo shaman or two taken care of both my sorceresses managed to get off bladewind + black horror onto nice neatly ranked and easilly paniked units

Keledron · Post by **Keledron** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:51 am

Twin lvl 2's is my preferred option for most games unless I want to play a non engagement style then a 4/2 split works better.

They are highly effective and can muster a surprising amount of power as has been commented you won't overwealm people but you will be more than a match for most opponents.

A good combo would be something like this
L2, Null talisman, Tome of Furion and Powerstone
L2, Dispel scroll x2

Giving you one agressive sorceress with some added magical defence (I often mount this one in some way) and a second defensive option but thanks to Power of Darkness and the no dice cap she is still more of a threat than any other L2 and can match a L4 for a single key spell cast.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:47 am

Kargan DaemonClaw wrote:What are you giving up though?

If you put in a dreadlord on dragon and then have the rest of yor army with no BSB and no leadership.

if your army is mostly dark riders and harpies as you implied with the comment about no sacrificial dagger then you might be OK. But your wizards might be vulnerable to things like harpies that kamikazi onto your sorceress and kill her.

So it needs to be taken in the context of the whole list.

I'm running a Cold One-mounted BSB with Hydra Banner alongside a hefty unit of Cold One Knights, so that obviously gives me very strong hitting power alongside my dragon lord. The third character is a scroll caddy for support.

The dual sorcs have a lot of people, both from the perspective of versatility as well as model appeal. Sorceresses are one of the reasons I started playing the Druchii in the first place, so having a decent magic phase would be a nice touch. It's hard to justify giving up the hitting power of the 2-Attack Cold One Knights, not to mention the staying power of the BSB.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:48 am

Kel and I talk about the magic phase a lot as it is one of his favourite aspects, and one he is particularly good in. I remember the days of old when he used to try and explain the best way to approach this phase to Ant (who never seemed to listen until Kel gave him a short sharp lesson on the table!).

I use that same combo he has posted quite often myself and have found it to be very effective. The power stone wins games!

Willowdark · Post by **Willowdark** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:47 pm

Tethlis wrote:It's hard to justify giving up the hitting power of the 2-Attack Cold One Knights, not to mention the staying power of the BSB.

I'm having the same problem. I'm absolutely in love with the Hydra Banner CoK combo. Landing that charge is just so rewarding, especially with Hatred. All that killing makes me giggle inside...

Have you considered trading your Dragon for a Manticore? sure, you give up wounds, strength, toughness, scaly skin, attacks, and you might go Frenzied and loose control, but you still cause terror, have hatred and killing blow. Plus, you don't loose that extra hero slot so you can keep your BSB AND run the 2 Lvl2s. Seems like a win/win situation for just a few small sacrifices.

it seems like the consensus is that the dual lvl2 combo will work, I might even try it out a few times myself.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:08 pm

That's a good point willowdark, and I actually wrote up that sort of list right before I read your post. I do like the idea of having that solid magic presence, and the Manticore is still a great unit choice. The loss of dragon durability and the loss of the breath weapon are both tough, but I still think it could be worth it. I think I'll have to playtest both variants and see. I do feel bad spending that many points on characters, but I think I can still get away with it.

Irtehdar · Post by **Irtehdar** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:03 am

I run 2 lvl 2's regularly and I like how it works for me.
I prefer this over the lvl 4 for numerous reasons.
1. If I keep them appart my enemy have to dedicate alot more effort to kill off my magic phase.
2. It gives my magic alot bigger reach.
3. It allows me to bring my Dreadlord.

I usually run both of them on DS's to increase their range further.
My gear setup is usually something like this:
1. Familiar, Scroll
2. Tome, Lifetaker (or alternatively Sac Dagger, Scroll and without horse)