Dark Elf Warriors with or without shields

[Silverheimdall]

The #1 reason I go with shields on mine is purely because without shields, they look weird, with that arm raised for a shield, to have no shield, is plain annoying~

So its no tactical reason that I will always have my warriors with shields X:

[Skilgannon]

The #1 reason I go with shields on mine is purely because without shields, they look weird, with that arm raised for a shield, to have no shield, is plain annoying~

Good reasoning, sometimes do stuff like this (light armour on high elf archers because it made them tie in with the army). I convereted them all using RXB arms to have a hand kind of resting on their lap/hip it works quite well. It would look werid otherwise I agree.

[Farodin]

Up untill now I also always use shields on both the rxb-men and the spearmen, but now that I begin to think about it, it is actually pretty stupid to just basicly give shields to them.

IMO it just depends on the list you have, and the situation you are in to wheter give them shields or not. If you for example really could use a unit of DR, but you just got the points for 4 of them, it really would be wise to consider leaving the shields of the spearmen/rxb-men so you could get the DR unit. This of course isn't only limited to DR .

Secondly, your opponent. If you know what your up against you should use this information (so this doesn't count in tournaments). If you know that you will be facing a heavy missile army with lots of archers, you should give them the shields as this will quiete some troops. If you are facing a heavy missile army with lots of S4 shots, or a high S CC army (WoC, Brets, O&G etc...) then you might consider not to take them, especcially if this means that you can't take another unit.

Third, just like Silver said, if you can't model the arms cool, or you just don't think they look cool without their shields then this also could be the reason to give them the shields. The only thing with thsi one is, when you are playing in a tournament I think that you should be a bit more busy with making a armylist as powerfull as possible and not with how it exactly looks (unless of course, you want to win the best painted army prize).

Just my 2 cents,

-Farodin

[Willy[arg]]

I think some very good points have been made.

1) Comparing price increase % against survability % is a good one (the extra points will always be welcomed somwhere else in the army)
THIS point is VERY important since it clearly shows that shilds are useless if you
expect S5 attacks

2) Noting de BIG difference between Warriors an RxB is a good one too

But I think we are missing the MOST important point here. That is answering the question:

"What are you going to do with your Warriors/RxBs?" and of course "What do you expect to face?"

I can see many functions for warriors ... they are very flexible and the 1 pt shield
makes them even more flexible.... your choice to take it or not.

If you have a 60 warriors unit.... then taking shields.... well ... that or a full unit of harpys (almost). I don't think I'd take shild. But I play in units of 20 = 4x5.... that is not any full unit .... and then the difference in points is not so important.

I face the choice... shields or:
a) 3 more warriors
b) 2 corsairs
c) 1 more harpy
d) 2 RxBs (no shield)
e) Equipment for characters

In this case, against some HE, Lizards... I take shields.... but

The important question is, again, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR TROOPS?"
Remember that an invincible unit just sitting in the battlefield is worth nothing.

[Sulla]

My warriors have performed so poorly lately that I'm beginning to think the best use of them is in naked 10's as meatshields/redirecters.

No-one brings anything soft enough for them to enter combat without becoming a total liability.

That said, warriors are down on the 3rd tier of core for me anyway with corsairs.

Top tier are rxbmen, (That hail of shots are the best way I have for dealing with large targets.) Also DR's for their versatility.

2nd tier are harpies, only missing out on the top billing because they don't count as core.

The 7th edition warhammer world is just too dangerous for s3 combat troops with light armour.

[Buddylimbeck]

keeping troops alive helps victory points...i think sometimes we think so much about what they can do we forget about how to keep them alive as well...and if just adding 1 point per soldier gives them some boost to survivability then its a well spent point. if you roll four dice and get 3 sixes your one point shield just saved you 21 points total if it is a strength 5 attack in hand to hand combat and you opt to use hand weapon instead of spears.....now we can never predict our rolls, but at least we still get a chance to save not only a soldier but also maybe that one deciding point in who wins CR changing tide of the game...what general wants to charge his uber unit into a spearman block just to see it stand by one save?
7 point shielded spearman are worth every point spent if you play them right...even if they never get into combat as thats still points you have left.

[Sadisticity]

As guys mentioned about the 4+ amour saves in closecombat. Is it entirely legal for your warriors to use hand weapons in the front rank for the additional +1 amour saves in closecombat and spear for the 2nd rank so that they can attack from the 2nd rank?

And of course, if a warrior dies, another warrior from the rank behind using the spear "keeps his spear" and take out the hand weapon to fight.

lol

Isn't it a little... foul play?

[Skilgannon]

As guys mentioned about the 4+ amour saves in closecombat. Is it entirely legal for your warriors to use hand weapons in the front rank for the additional +1 amour saves in closecombat and spear for the 2nd rank so that they can attack from the 2nd rank?

In a word no. You have to choose what weapon you are using for the whole unit. The 4+ save is about using hand weapon and shield to get the extra save when you don't think the spear attacks will do very much.

[Sadisticity]

As guys mentioned about the 4+ amour saves in closecombat. Is it entirely legal for your warriors to use hand weapons in the front rank for the additional +1 amour saves in closecombat and spear for the 2nd rank so that they can attack from the 2nd rank?

In a word no. You have to choose what weapon you are using for the whole unit. The 4+ save is about using hand weapon and shield to get the extra save when you don't think the spear attacks will do very much.

Hmm... So must you like sort of declare at the start of the game whether your Warrior Unit is holding Spears of Hand Weapon? Because according to the DE Codex, all the DE Warriors are equipped with BOTH a spear and a hand weapon. Unlike shield where you need to fork out an extra 1 point to have an additional +1 amour save.

Hence, technically, they can choose to keep their spears and whip out their hand weapons or vice versa depending on the situation (As a whole unit).


Is there an explicitly rule in the rule book stating that models in a unit cannot use split weapons on the same turn? Otherwise, the 1st row hand weapon and 2nd row spear is a debatable issue.

[Ehakir]

Is there an explicitly rule in the rule book stating that models in a unit cannot use split weapons on the same turn? Otherwise, the 1st row hand weapon and 2nd row spear is a debatable issue.

Yes there is, under weapons pg. 58 I believe. I haven't got my BRB at hand at this moment, but I can ensure you that there is.
That is why people liked the cityguard unit a lot; the first rank could be given rxb's instead of spears, and the second rank could attack with their spears, resulting in a 4+ save combined with spears. This however, isn't possible with the warriors we have now.

[Irtehdar]

I cant recall ever having fielded warriors without shields and have only fielded RxB's without them on afew occations where I couldnt find the points for them anywhere.
In combat I usually follow a simple golden rule: ''always use HW+shield unless my opponent negates their armour completely(S5+AS or better)''
I always dish out for shields on my RxB's even when going to battles where Im almost certain they wont need them for the simple reason they might just end up needing it after all. 10 pts could very easily be the difference that made my RxB's win a combat or loose one and crumble my entire gunline which usually means 3x10 RxB's and 1-2 RBT's.

[Overmind]

Personally I'd rather spend the points and not need the sheilds then to leave the sheilds off. Still that might just be my opinion. It's worked so far however so I'll advice others to do so as well.

Then again I don't use harpies so perhaps I'm just insane.