Dealing with beastmen

Saragos · Post by **Saragos** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:43 am

So, I'm going to be playing a friend of mine soon. We've had many battles together, with him usually playing Warriors of Chaos. I've consistently beat him with his warriors, using my superior mobility to out-maneuver him and stay out of close combat until I was ready. I've only played his beastmen list one other time, and he severely trounced me. Now, it was a long time ago, and I was very inexperienced, and have since gotten better. However, it makes me nervous to be going up against the beastmen again.

I know that it's difficult to give "general" advice without knowing specifics about his list, but that's exactly what I'm asking for. I just want some general tips for dealing with beastmen, as I've only ever played them once before, the time I was trounced. I don't mind losing at all(I take every loss as a learning experience), but I would love some general advice.

Thanks!

Tzelok · Post by **Tzelok** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:12 am

Some general tips I have:

Harpies are your friend and can buy you an extra turn vs an ambushing unit doing anything

Shoot minotaurs lots. If you can buff the shooting or debuff the mino's, do it. Their frenzy can get out of control if there is a Doombull (or whatever the character is called) in the unit. I don't remember the rule but I believe they get an extra frenzy attack for winning combats so you want them to die fast, preferrably before getting into combat.

Don't underestimate an ungor horde. I have watched this unit kill units and monsters and everything in between.

It doesn't hurt to have shades with a manbane rending stars assassin

And finally, Beast Lord's are TOUGH. Killing Blow is great help.

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:34 am

Beastmen have a complete lack of armor, so range attacks are in order. the T4 of the minatours and Gores will keep a few around, but better than once they hit CC. Because of primal furry, they can have Frenzy and Hatred until they have to rerole it again on their next turn. If they get it off, it's a whole new can of worms as they get a whole new frenzy and hatred (at least as far as I understand).

Monsters are another issue. Cygores are a mobile stone throwers, but their aim gets better when attacking wizards, daemons, and undead (keep the latter 2 in mind when you do Storm of Magic). If they are also within 24" of a wizzard and that wizzard doesn't role high enough to get a spell off then they role a miscast (if the spell is dispelled, nothing happens).

Ghorgons make nice suupot unit, teaming up with other units or going on their own. Either way they are made to keep getting attacks.

Jabberslyths are another pain to deal with, just from reading it. Wound it in CC, it deals damage back to the attacking unit. Aura of madness makes every enemy (and I do mean everyone) within 12" of it have to pass an LD test or start loosing wounds based on how much they lost by. While this is largely for warmachines, and elves shouldn't have that provlem, it's still a flying terror causer.

Also, careful of that one winged shaman. Just because he has angel means dosn't mean he isn't hell bent of reducing you to ash, nor is without the ability to do so.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:33 am

Beastmen are mostly underpowered. That said, in the right hands they can be really quite potent in 8th ed.

Easiest way to beat them in my experience is to go very melee heavy. Big hordes of witch elves are ideal - you strike first, with a gazillion attacks, and have poison. His low armour saves mean you will cream through pretty much anything he throws at you. Executioners with the Standard of HG can be good too - hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, striking first (due to higher initiative) means you will cut even the nastiest minotaur unit into ribbons. A unit of Cold One Knights can be very powerful on the charge. His lack of shooting makes taking witch elves viable as a good choice btw.

Ambush is a nuisance, but it's weak enough to not be very scary. He has too little chance of his units turning up where he wants them to. That said, keep a couple of semi mobile distracting units around and make sure that your fighting units don't get sandwhiched between normally deployed units at the front and ambushing units from the rear. In my experience though, usually the net impact of ambush is to make the beastmen player have so little control over the location of his forces that he suffers rather than gains from it.

The Jabberslythe can be mostly ignored. It is too weak in melee to be scary and your standard leadership is too high for Aura of Madness to be really be very scary.

A reaper bolt thrower or two is a good idea for taking out the flying shaman if he brings him (and aiding against the inevitable Tuskgor chariots he'll have)

Don't worry about the monsters too much either. Either pin cushion them, like you would a giant, with massed RxB fire, or engage them in combat with your witches or execs. They die quite quickly.

Johnno · Post by **Johnno** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:19 am

Beastmen have low armour so shooting /magic spells can do wonders.
Augment your troops with magic for combat.

Don't let minotaurs charge your units, don't throw measly units to tie them up as they will win combats and blood greed (extra attack for winning combat) can start adding up to get quite nasty.

Depending on size or number of minotaur units (my mate fields 8 minos w F/C and Doombull) I shoot it with everything you can, magic them to death/augment my chargers then charge and try to get a flank charge (or two) and that should pretty much take care of them.

You should be able to dominate the shooting/magic phases with limited points allotment so focus on a CC heavy list and try to get charges/flank charges to your advantage

Saragos · Post by **Saragos** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:29 pm

So, I had the game. It was interesting. I was rusty going in; it's been about year since I last played. He had a very magic and ungor/gor heavy list. There were no minotaurs, quite a few raider units, a level 4 and 3 level 2s by a herd stone. I made several tactical mistakes, and we didn't get to finish the game(only got to round 4). I have also never put together a 3000 point list(which is the point value we were playing).

All that being said, by the end of round 4, I'd consider a draw, leaning toward a loss for me. I had destroyed his BSB and level 4 unit, but he had gotten my level 4 and BG and execs. I still had a full strength hydra and a unit of CoKs with my general and BSB in it, so there was definitely still a chance.

He kept using magic to buff his units while debuffing mine, and I had no real way to counter the ridiculous amount of power dice he was throwing around because of the herd stones. His hordes of gor and ungors were also difficult to deal with, as I didn't really have any really big units; I tend to run smaller blocks, with my largest unit being a 30 man spear elf bunker for my level 4. He got into cc with my xbows by round 2, so I couldn't soften him up, either. Anyway, it was a learning experience for me, and I have several ideas to improve my list because of it. It didn't help that he obviously tailored his list to beat me; he had several items designed specifically to counter me, but whatever. I've beat him enough times in the past I suppose he has a bit of grudge.

Johnno · Post by **Johnno** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:24 am

At least it sounds like you took something positive away from the game.
3000 points = LOTS of raider....
Now re-tailor your list to fight his

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:53 am

Interesting to read. Beastmen are an interesting army magic wise - they have one of the best potential magic phases. IIRC, if you combine their own magic items with the common ones you can get a bunch of extra power dice and +6 to cast... Costs quite a bit for them to do, though, and involves a lot of synergising and awkward positioning.