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Have you played against Empire with 2x Mortars/Hell Rockets? It's very hard thing for Elves, a specially when you've got big units.

Rkhatzar wrote:Have you played against Empire with 2x Mortars/Hell Rockets? It's very hard thing for Elves, a specially when you've got big units.

No not yet. But I have played empire for years and know the army well.

The Hell Rockets are really not a worry as the almost never hit. The Mortars are a bit of a problem but two units of 5 harpies takes care of them. Also Empire does not have any really good march blockers, so you will be across the board in 2 turns anyway. Once almost any of your HTH units reach his lines, He is going to die. The COB can make sure your elite troops get the ward save to make it, and the +1 attack when you hit. A small unit of BG would crush empire swordsmen and lets not talk about a ASF Exec unit with a Hag BSB. They have nothing to stop that (Besides a STank).

Magic is always a problem for my builds but I will talk about that in a latter post, back to work I go.

Ta, Clive

I would not expect you to have a problem with Empire at all with your list. What is the army you find the most difficult to handle with your style of play, and in your gaming environments?

Dark Alliance wrote:I would not expect you to have a problem with Empire at all with your list. What is the army you find the most difficult to handle with your style of play, and in your gaming environments?

Daemons. Ohhh I hate daemons.

I do not know what to do against 2 units of 6 flamers. They just slaughter any DE build I can think off (Or pin you down so the other units can kill you in HTH combat).

Any Ideas in a Tournment enviroment?

Ta, Clive

Flamers require, in most cases, heavy magic directed at them, in the manner of

CHILLWIND! Completely disables their annoying ability to blow your units up~

But yeah, that means 2 or 3 Sorceress (1 Lv4 + 2 Lv2 perhaps) who will need to focus on those annoyances.

x:

clivegh wrote:

Dark Alliance wrote:I would not expect you to have a problem with Empire at all with your list. What is the army you find the most difficult to handle with your style of play, and in your gaming environments?

Daemons. Ohhh I hate daemons.

I do not know what to do against 2 units of 6 flamers. They just slaughter any DE build I can think off (Or pin you down so the other units can kill you in HTH combat).

Any Ideas in a Tournment enviroment?

Ta, Clive

I played at Dundracon (Same weekend, just a north california tournament as opposed to south, though I did contemplate making the trip for Broadside.)

At that tournament I went up against 2 units of flamers, 3 heralds and kairos. The easiest way is sit something tough (Hydras, dragons, chariots even) and point them straight ahead. Flamers really struggle even against hydras in my expierence. The major problem I have is balancing the need to kill them with the Kairos beating my ass.

-Rex

Clive: the standard 2 tactics I employ are feed them the Hydra and use the pandant BSB. Both of which I have found to be highly successful in dealing with Flamers.

clivegh wrote: I really hate having to as I could use the 95pts in a million ways, but its a lot of points to have auto break because you lose by 1.

wouldn't taking witchbrew on the Death hag solve the auto. breaking from fear issue, because the opponent loses all bonuses from outnumbering?

The opponent would lose the +1 CR for outnumbering but I do not think that it would change the basic if you lose and you are outnumbered by Fear, you auto break.

ta, Clive

Dark Alliance wrote:Clive: the standard 2 tactics I employ are feed them the Hydra and use the pandant BSB. Both of which I have found to be highly successful in dealing with Flamers.

But they would eat a hydra. All there attacks are flaming so the stand and fire from a charge alone would take it to 1/2 its wounds (6 Flamers = 21 attacks (avg) needing 3 to hit (-1 charge / + 1 LT) = 14 hits which 4.5 = wounds. 4.5 wds turns into 3 wounds after armour saves.

You have 6 Handler Attacks = 5 hits maybe 2 wds + 7 Attacks Hydra = 6 hit = 4 wds = 6 wds vs 5+ ward = 4 wds. 2 Fig go down. 4 attacks = 2 hits 1wd.

So you beat them by 4. 2 more gone.

Okay I see the Math, but the Stand and Shoot will be hard on the Hydra.

Clive that is the point. The Daemon player sees the Hydra as an easy target so you feed it to him from a tantalising distance, and whilst he sends his Flamers off to decease the wandering Hydra you deal with the rest of his army.

Smoke and mirrors.

I expect the Hydra to die eventually but he provides a great window of opportunity for the DE player to outmanouvre the inevitably smaller Daemon army.

Dark Alliance wrote:Clive that is the point. The Daemon player sees the Hydra as an easy target so you feed it to him from a tantalising distance, and whilst he sends his Flamers off to decease the wandering Hydra you deal with the rest of his army.

Smoke and mirrors.

I expect the Hydra to die eventually but he provides a great window of opportunity for the DE player to outmanouvre the inevitably smaller Daemon army.

Thats a really good pont! I will put that away for play in the next Game Vs Deamons.

It reminds me of empire cannon. Just by putting the cannon on the table you force the other player to worry about it the intire game. You never need to fire a shot, just put it on a flank in a forest and watch him worry about it.

Ahhh love Warmachines and the Hydra!

Exactly.

Smoke and mirrors yeah!

Charge a BSB with pendent into the flamers. That'll hold them up all game!

just out of curiosity, how did you use your master? i figured the hag bsb was in the executioners, and the sorceress was chilling with some crossbowmen. was he in the big black guard unit?

sergio wrote:just out of curiosity, how did you use your master? i figured the hag bsb was in the executioners, and the sorceress was chilling with some crossbowmen. was he in the big black guard unit?

Yes he was with the BG. His role was to tie up big bad things with the pendent. I used to use a lord to do that, but it was a waste of points, when a 140pt Master did it just as well. With the BG, you get the immune to Psy and the Stubborn, so he can take down treemen, great deamons (By CR) and such. He was great at killing vampires, as I can not tell you the number of times I get hit with red fury - hatred combo.

Its great to watch the VC player say 4 attacks, re-rolling misses, S5, W on 2's, then 4 more attacks (Re-rolling misses), W on 2's.

I say Okay, I get 4 AS (HWS 4up) Then 3 Ward Saves on a 2+. Opps Red Fury does not kick in as you did no wounds. I guess I win this round.

Clive, true i love doing that to my mate but vampire players moan about the pendant more than most armies. Clive, so when is your next event and what versiona re you looking to use??

Marauder Mitch2 wrote:Clive, true i love doing that to my mate but vampire players moan about the pendant more than most armies. Clive, so when is your next event and what versiona re you looking to use??

Ah the joy of being a parent (3 and 4 year old) means I am rationed as far as GT type events.

But I should be going to the Quake City Rumble in San Fransico in june.

I will be taking something that is close to what I took here, with some small mods. I am still figuring it all out to be honest.

The new lizards are really tough as there magic is fantastic. They can take the ignore miscast so the ring is just okay against them, and they can punish any army with just 1 Scroll Caddy. Also all the Big Creatures can hurt DE with the impact hits.

To be Honest, its the impact hits that hurt me the most in many of the games.

So I am not sure. Any Advice?

you have come up with another list?
modyfying your list maybe a problem, because everything is important in it!

at the moment i really fear the shooting from lizzies - these razerdons are quite insane and don't die fast enough to normal rxbows.

even ludicrously dinosaur armies with steagons & carno gives me headaches - their shooting is able to deal with dark riders and other redirecting units and the big stuff can take so many hits until they go down... if i loose 1 round thx to terror or fear the rest of my start to run!

i am no friend of magic (as you said - you need many good rolls to get a spell of, DE have no bound spells which could give your mages more punch) and don't like many points in a single unit... but i am really thinking of dreadlord on dragon with pendant, regenarmor plus crimson, maybe it's time to fight fatties with fatties - but thats against my style and if this guy goes down it's over...



clive - did they challenge your unit of execs? i would be afraid of this - because accepting with BSB you might loose first strike and with tullaris (probably won't be enough against a hero with wardsave) fear is gone... your unit might do more damage than his of course, so you don't run but another fear causing opponent may cause you problems, or?!
in some games here a bloodthirster flies around - of course he'll call out a challange, don't see a chance for the execs