CoK Liabilities

Los manticores · Post by **Los manticores** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:36 am

Last week I ran a list that used two units of CoK's each with masters attached. Maybe it was just a bad run of dice, but I had game full of dumb Dinosaurs. With this in mind, is the prevailing thought that CoK's without a DL nearby is bad or CoK's are good on there own and I should buy some new dice. Or if I want reliability go with DR (just tossing it out there). Basically I chose CoK's to replace the role of BG. I doubt that I will play BG, unless Santa delivers two units of 14 with FC. I need some guidence and reassurance here.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:49 am

Mine have been converted to dark riders. I ran 135 point naked units of them and they were still fairly dismal failures. They were intimidating and drew lots of attention, but their ability to inflict damage was trivial because they are so expensive for their 2 attacks, especially since one of those is from the mount, without the riders WS or Int.

I use a unit of 14 witches with banner, and while I have some black guard, I think I would add a cauldron and more witches in a larger list rather than blackguard. Cheap and nasty, they suit more style more than the professional murders of Malakieth's bodyguard.

Waerik · Post by **Waerik** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:06 pm

The chance to fail a leadhership test on L9 is 1/6, so on average, each unit will go stupid once per game (the chance is 1/12 with a dreadlord).

I ran 135 point naked units of them and they were still fairly dismal failures. They were intimidating and drew lots of attention, but their ability to inflict damage was trivial because they are so expensive for their 2 attacks, especially since one of those is from the mount, without the riders WS or Int.

Naked units of knights are very powerfull with a cauldron of blood though.

IMO, if you want to run cold one knights, naked units of 5-6 is the best (possibly with a musician, since it dramaticly increases your chance to rally if you don't have a dreadlord about), in conjunction with a cauldron. The cauldron ads more punch then a master, is a little bit more expencive, but can choose where to apply the punch each turn.

There is a thread discussing cold ones vs black guard here: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60714

How to best use cold ones:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=60428

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:39 pm

Waerik wrote:The chance to fail a leadhership test on L9 is 1/6, so on average, each unit will go stupid once per game (the chance is 1/12 with a dreadlord).

If only that were true

Mine failed every time it was required to actually do something, and faied on consecutive turns with monotonous regularity.

Stupidity adds a variable that, combined with their limitied arttacks, makes them less than perfect as a hammer. I have used mine as semi-disposable flankers, but even then they lack the speed and mobility to exploit flanks and makes them a poor choice for the role.

Cathel · Post by **Cathel** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:16 pm

My COK did not fail me any relevant stupidity tests in the last time. And the rubberlance syndrome got healed by hatred.
The last tests I failed where in close proximity (less than 3.5") from the enemy so that it really was a charge.
In my experience they are as good on their own as anything else in our repertoire. All our units need support for the charge, since prolonged fights are something I don't like.
Waerik is right on the mathematical side, but it only hurts if they go stupid on the turn they need to charge.

Waerik · Post by **Waerik** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:17 am

but it only hurts if they go stupid on the turn they need to charge.

Which is why they are so nice in small units supported by a cauldron.

You can live with 135 points dying to stupidty, afterall, with the +1 attack from the cauldron, they will break most enemies on the charge.

Stupidity only really becomes a pain when the units get expencive.

Los manticores · Post by **Los manticores** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:33 pm

Since my original intent was to use the CoK to replace the BG. I think the prudent choice would be to drop the CoK's down to one unit and can still take the One Ring and switch the second unit to DR. I think an 18" charge with a Master could do some serious damage Especially since this list is suppoerted by a CoB.

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:39 pm

Well, stupidity is a big liability for the COK. Which is why I am a big proponent of using executioners instead of COK, as a hammer unit.

Los manticores · Post by **Los manticores** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:55 pm

My list runs 20 Exe's with a Hag BSB. I was trying to provide my opponent with the "Which Block do I charge" Option. 2units CoK or EXE's. My two blocks of RBx, and my DR's Should be elsewhere.

Waerik · Post by **Waerik** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:29 am

I like to run executioners in units of six, with champion and musician.

They are then a cheap support unit, which you may or may not choose to screen (i.e. if he shoots your executioners your riders and harpies will be able to take out his shooting quickly, if you screen, he will get to shoot for more turns).

I would however only run this cind of unit in a list with the cauldron, abliet, I would not like to run either knights nor exceutioners without the thing

.

Tyury · Post by **Tyury** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:54 am

Yesterday i played a game against lizzys, and before that game I tought CoK where not as good as everybody said. However i changed my mind.

My unit of CoK made his skinks flee, I persued, ran them over and ran in to his saurus-unit. thay fled to, after the combat resolution. I ran them over too, and on the way an other unit of skinks who were already fleeing.

I think cold ones can be verry usefull to clean up the field of enemy units with low stats, so you can dominate the movement fase.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:05 pm

Lakissov wrote:Well, stupidity is a big liability for the COK. Which is why I am a big proponent of using executioners instead of COK, as a hammer unit.

Heh, all armies I play against have big units of fear/terror causers and/or strikes first. Exies are no more reliable vs them.

Otherwise, I would love to bring them too. Curse GW for not allowing masters/dreadlords to join Exies.

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:26 pm

I'd say, fear/terror causers are a small problem compared to ASF for execs. Think about it - when you need to charge a fear causer with your execs, you need to make an Ld test. But you also need to make it for the COK - the stupidity test. And when you need to charge a terror-causer, you need to make one test for execs (terror or, if they have already tested for terror, then fear), while for COK you need to make two tests (stupidity first, then fear).

Of course, Execs have a lower leadership, but they will mostly be making their charges from a position where they can use general's leadership anyway, unless your general flies around somewhere.

Los manticores · Post by **Los manticores** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:33 am

Well the sacrifices must of pleased Khaine, because I couldn't of asked of any more from my two units of CoK as they performed admirably for me last night. I passed all of the stupid checks (alot of 8's & 9's). I was even able to buff a unit of CoK with an extra attack on a charge. I found the benefit of the Knights over the BG was thier speed across the field as I faced a heavy shooting Empire Army. If I had BG, I would of been shot to pieces as I would not of survived the assault on the hill.