Black Guard question

[Ezr-aeron]

why is it when i look at most peoples lists they only have between 14-17 BG? surely it being our elite regiment you want the full capacity. theyre also only 13 points each, cheaper than a chaos warrior. theyll probably get into combat on turn 3 so to survive that many more turns wont you need as many as possible? even with ASF and a character in there they only have heavy armour so can still die quite easily.

just wondering on peoples thoughts about this.

[Kargan daemonclaw]

~15 black guard is plenty. 13 points is expensive for static combat res when you can have 2 warriors for the same price.

Black Guard are normally deployed wider than normal to maximise the number of attacks so getting additional rank bonuses is really expensive.

Many players will tell you you are better with 2 smaller units than one big one, I think you are better with a unit of 20 warriors and a unit of 15 black guard than you are with a unit of 25 black guard.

Even then 25 ASF black guard won't beat chaos warriors or things like saurus temple guard with a 2+ save. An S4 halberd is just so much of a scratching post to high armour troops.

IN NZ it may also be a concession to composition scoring (Handicaping based on list toughness) and a big unit of the coolest unit you can buy will get you a bigger handicap.

People also probably want to spend points on other DE toys.

[Brokenstone]

And Dark Elves have the pleasurable option of screening their expensive units with relative cheap and effective alternatives like Harpies and the like, which prevents early death. Really, as Dark Elves, you should be killing more on the charge, with eternal hatred you still get the upper hand in the second turn, so if you can't get troops to support them in long difficult combats, then you maneuvered badly.

And a big unit can die just as brutally as a small unit to a powerful magic spell, just more proportionally to lose in points, which is probably the main threat if you are screening them properly.

[Demetrius]

Well BG have a max unit size of 20 IIRC. Also they are ITP so dont need to worry about panic. Also they just need a front rank to do the damage so in most cases the extra ranks are useless in terms of points spent.

[Hainzy]

I usually field a 15 strong BG unit and I find it does the job just fine.
I'm a massive fan of Assassins as well and usually run a couple or 3 if I'm playing against a mate for shiz's and giggles.
With an ASF Assassin (ROK & TOD) in a unit of ASF BG with a COB can create a hell cheesy but digustingly awesome unit (which I cherish each game) to smack the crap out of anything they touch.
It puts a big O'l smile on my dial!!!!
Cheers!
H

[Waerik]

why is it when i look at most peoples lists they only have between 14-17 BG? surely it being our elite regiment you want the full capacity. theyre also only 13 points each, cheaper than a chaos warrior. theyll probably get into combat on turn 3 so to survive that many more turns wont you need as many as possible? even with ASF and a character in there they only have heavy armour so can still die quite easily.

They are taken in small units, since they don't need static combat REZ.

The BG have three advantages over any of our other units:

a) they are allowed o re-roll hits in all rounds of combat

b) they are immune to psychology

c) they are stubborn

BG are thus by far our best unit in protracted combats; the reason why we take the extra rank(s) (they are usually fielded 6 or 7 wide) is to absorb some casualties from stray shooting and CC.

The reason why we don't invest more in the unit, is because the return is rather marginal.

Yes, more bodies means they can survive more shooting, however, they can be screened, and there is no chance that they will run due to being immune to psychology.

Furthermore, if you invest to much points in a unit, your opponent will choose to ignore it, and since we have hatred, we can easily be redirected via suicide charges (since we are forced to pursue / overrun).