Advice vs Daemons

Mezzanine · Post by **Mezzanine** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:47 am

So im probably going to be facing a daemons army for the first time soon, and i have no clue about what they can bring to the table, other than often hearing that they are overpowered. The game will be below 2k though so there wont be any lord choices, but all the same id much appreciate if people could advise me as to what kind of nasty things i should watch out for, items or units (like you should be aware of the ring of hotek before playing DE) and whats the best way to approach daemons - does magic work against them? More combat orientated? Shooting?

At the moment my knowledge is limited to knowing abit about bloodletters (killing blow, ITP etc) and that several units have MR(x), that generally daemons dont have armour but do have wardsaves.

Thanks.

Pops71408 · Post by **Pops71408** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 pm

flamers are insaine. each model has an 18 shooting attack that deals d6 S4 flaming hits..that's a possible 30 shots for a unit of 5. They are T4 with 2 wounds so they're decently tough.

Also their hounds are crazy too. I believe they are M9, S5, T4, 2A, 2W and are fast cav.

Their heralds help boost their core units. Khorne herald give bloodletters frenzy, Slannesh give daemonetts ASF, Nurgle gives plaugebearers regen (Standard bunker unit for daemons) and Tzeentch gives horrors 4+ ward save. Kill the herald ASAP. They are also lvl 1 sorc except for tzeentch who's lvl 2.

DE shooting is pretty effective against them. be wary of magic since they have that 5+ ward...I find it to not be worth the risk of a miscast. In CC we can beat them but remeber that they don't break, they take instability test (much like VC) so know that you'll probably be in prolonged combat

That's all the info I have. Good luck

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:20 pm

Watch out for a nurgle herald equipped with "the beardy device that makes any enemy in base contact ALWAYS STRIKE LAST EVEN WHEN YOU STRIKE FIRST" (I forget its exact name). My assassin was most upset when he made that discovery firsthand (well, he was upset for the 3 seconds or so that he lived after revealing himself anyway...)

Lots of their creatures are WS5, so be alert. I definitely underestimated their combat abilities (especially those cursed hounds that pops71408 so rightly refers to).

Flamers are a pain - watch your hydra in particular.

Magic is pretty nasty - that's a lot of dice to be up against. It is limited in use as they are mostly level 1s, but even so...

Look out for the ward saves and regens. I would suggest taking units that cause more wounds with less AP. No point fielding executioners for example, but witch elves, blackguard and RxBs that get lots of lower strength wounds could be good. High SCR is definitely your friend - yes they don't break, but if they lose by a lot then they die in droves

I agree that ideally you should kill the heralds ASAP, but that is sometimes easier said than done (some can be really quite well protected...)

Let us know how it goes

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:40 pm

I'm lucky here in San Diego. All the Demon players have been shamed into not bringing their Demon armies out so I don't have to deal with them. That being said, like any army that ignores one third of the rulebook, send out five or six Assassins in a skirmish formation so they can support each other and you should do ok.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:33 pm

I'm lucky here in San Diego. All the Demon players have been shamed into not bringing their Demon armies out

That and the wonderful zoo, gorgeous weather and beautiful seasides

Yemeth · Post by **Yemeth** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:55 pm

pops71408 wrote:Their heralds help boost their core units. Khorne herald give bloodletters frenzy

AFAIK it's hatred not frenzy.

Sarcon · Post by **Sarcon** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:12 pm

That's correct. Khorne heralds confer Hatred to bloodletters.

Chillwind works fine against flamers, rendingstar assassins and dreadlords with potion of strength + hydra blade + pendant on a black dragon can easily take down a weakened thirstier (@ 3 wounds left it should be easy). Knights are great, don't forget to take a ring of hotek against all those horrors. Against daemons I prefer to keep my dragon close to my knights, so they can combi-charge if they have to. Whatever works best is to have the daemon player make as many saves as you can possibly have him do, and concentrate all your shooting on a single unit. That's what usually works for me. And oh, fleshhounds are nasty. BEWARE. I must point out every daemon player does NOT want to walk past a unit of 10 shades with rending star assassin with his fleshhounds

Post by **Dalamar** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:41 pm

Chillwind works fine against flamers,

Fine but not wonderful, you need to kill a flamer to stop them from shooting, and that's 2W and T4 coupled with 5+ save. Not the easiest to do.

Keldor · Post by **Keldor** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:18 pm

My advice would be null Talismans, they work very well against multiple low level casters, also as already mentioned use Crossbowmen.

Khalan · Post by **Khalan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:50 pm

I have met deamons once. And I had a magic heavy army
and it worked fine, and I won.
But I think korn has magic resistance so against them it's shooting or cc.

And have units with many attaks (throw enough mud on the wall and someting will stick.)

Good luck.

Tzelok · Post by **Tzelok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:13 pm

It depends on what type of demon army you are fighting. I was playing against a khorne/slaneesh army for awhile, shooting helped but ONLY if you concentrated your fire. Also hydra breath weapon helps alot. A small unit of executioners if used properly can help you mangle bloodcrushers (esp if backed up by the cauldron). Beyond that, lots of SCR!

S'tan · Post by **S'tan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:28 pm

How about the thing that's a game winner against pretty much everyone, ASF Black Guard with a BSB?

Post by **Dalamar** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:33 pm

They're hardly a game winner. especially against daemons... Two rounds of shooting (or one if they're lucky) from flamers and those awesome black guard are dead.

S'tan · Post by **S'tan** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:10 pm

Do Flamers autohit? Either way, you can screen your BG with Corsairs or Harpies.

Don't get me wrong, no unit is an auto win and all have couners and none play in a vaccum. Still, some are better then others and 20 BG with a BSB with a Ring of Darkness are one of the best ways to spend around 500 pts against pretty much anyone.

Post by **Dalamar** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:16 pm

6d6 BS4 S4 shots doesn't have to auto hit. They hit you on 4+ more often than not.

Quinn · Post by **Quinn** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:12 am

Use the DS BSB with POK, SoM, HA, SDC, and shield against Flamers. He really works well and will seriously irritate your opponent. There are many posts about this.
I play against a very good tournament player's demons all of the time and can tell you to be very careful of Slaneesh Chariots and Mtd Daemonettes. They don't look like much compared to the rest of the list, but they move 20" on the charge and can turn your flank fast.
Shooting is your friend against Demons. They have virtually no armor saves and the more you make them role that 5+ WS, the better. Otherwise it depends on the list. DEs can beat Daemons if you're good, like any other army.