Oh the horror!

[Kurze]

My regular opponent is a very canny VC player.
Normally he whoops my ass (oh how I hate undead magic), sometimes I can pull off a draw, and once a minor win.
I always struggle with the Uber combat monster Vamp. To be fair we normally play 4000pts as we like the grand scale of the battles but the sheer number of power dice he can throw at me is staggering!

Last game was just a 2250 match due to time/wife constraints, On a whim I decided to go nasty on his pallid undead ass!

So, for the first time in my loooong gaming career I annihilated him. I feel kinda bad afterwards, for about a second, cos I'm not what I'd consider a power gamer, but DAMMIT I'M SICK OF HORRENDOUS VAMPIRES CHEWING UP MY ARMY!!!!
Most games I actually outnumber him!!??

Anyway, here is the gist, Vamp lord kitted out to the max and some horrid weapon bloodline power that lets him hit auto and extra attack for each hit....yuk and a unit of Blood knights with some regen banner, BSB with some ward save vs shooting banner, charged into BG FC inc Kouran and ASF banner, BSB with Hydra banner and Dreadlord with Blood armor, Executioners axe = one very dead unit of blood knights. Minor rule issue that I later found in the book to be in my favor about when wound multipliers take effect (its in the shooting section pg 31) that would have taken care of the unit sooner but alls well that ends well.

Its pretty cheesy and I doubt I'll do it again, but hey, it worked.
Also in the game I was using chariots (2) with great sucsess. When they charge in tandem they make a hell of a mess!

Was also my first game using the Master on darksteed with the Roh combo, worked great! The look on his face......

Here is the list:

Dreadlord:
Executioners Axe, Blood armor

BSB:
Heavy armor, Great weapon, Hydra Banner

Sorceress:
Lvl2, Dispell scroll, Darkstar cloak

Master:
Darksteed, heavy armor,seadragon cloak shield, lance, RoH

20 Black Guard
FC, Kouran, ASF banner

20 Corsairs
FC, Sea serpent banner

16 Xbowmen
FC, shields

20 Warriors
FC, Shields

Chariot

Chariot

6 Harpies

2x Reapers


Any thoughts on how to continue the winning straek against the VC in larger games??

cheers

Kurze

[Red...]

BG FC inc Kouran and ASF banner, BSB with Hydra banner and Dreadlord with Blood armor,

Sadly this is an illegal unit. Kouran makes the BG unbreakable. Characters without unbreakable can't join units with unbreakable.

That said, Kouran is a pretty feeble character anyway, so all you need to do is replace him with a standard tower master. With leadership ten (stubborn on 9) and re-rolling for the BSB, you shouldn't need to be unbreakable anyway.

Just an idea, but I like Hellebron more than the dreadlord executioner, as she gets 7-9 S10 hits.

I'd be tempted to try the burgher khaine against him (similar set up as you have, but with executioners with banner of murder instead of the blackguard, cauldron (to make them stubborn and either give them +1 attack or 5+ ward saves each turn), BSB with ASF Banner and Hellebron).

I've not played against VC much, but an alternative to beating bloodknights with an uber unit of infantry is to bait/pull them away from your army with small units of harpies/darkriders/shades, then use your main army to pound his remaining forces into submission (seeing as he'll have spent 700+ points on his bloodknights and you'll have only lost 200 or so leading them away, you should have quite a nice imbalance of power in your favour for the main scrap...)

That's just a few thoughts, hopefully others can comment furhter

[Kurze]

Doh! Did'nt realise about the the unbreakable bit! But you are right, reg BG champ can have CD and is a heap cheaper!

I was looking at trying this : "I'd be tempted to try the burgher khaine against him (similar set up as you have, but with executioners with banner of murder instead of the blackguard, cauldron (to make them stubborn and either give them +1 attack or 5+ ward saves each turn), BSB with ASF Banner and Hellebron)."

Normally I run a unit of 10 CoK with Dreadlord and BSB, so it was just a nice change from worrying about failing stupidity tests but I do prefer the 2+ save of the knights.

Its the d3 wounds from a S10 hit on a Vamp Lord that sold me on the Executioners axe......

[Tethlis]

The Executioner's Axe isn't commonly used, but under the right circumstances it's sheer murder. Vamp Counts are not a fun opponent, and I definitely sympathize with you having a difficult time with them. Hellebron would make a very nice change of pace in case you feel like some variety, simply because the volume of high weaponskill, high strength attacks she can dish out is staggering. There's nothing wrong with using a powerful list to combat a powerful list, and given how powerful Vamp Counts are, this is especially true.

[Vesidel]

My favorite combat dreadlord setup: PoK, Armor of Eternal Serv, Potion of Strength, Great weapon.

Put this guy in a unit with ASF banner, and you've got a character that can trounce any vampire count I've ever seen.

[Tu'shan]

In the 4000 point games it might be worth putting together a suicide-charging master on manticore, with the (deathpiercer, I think?) for a whole load of killing blow attacks. Against the knights in a challenge they would get 2 static res (Banner, outnumber) If you can kill his lord off with a killing blow, you are laughing, its also not the hugest loss in a game that size if you don't. With that taking care of the big guys you can spend points on someone like Hellebrone, who excells at killing most things as long as they don't get to hit her first. The Ring of Hotek, although brillient, is not going to be nearly as effective in a game of that scale, as presumably your table is rather large, so taking out casters is still going to be priority number one. Another thing going to your favour if you take the Hag queen is taking witch elves as core troops as they are perfect for cutting through zombie swarms and the like.

Your units seem to be in classic 20 strong blocks are you fielding them 5x4 for maximum rank bonus?
Personally against a horde type army I would try using long thin units, 7x2 maximising the amount of attacks you have to cut through their numbers a bit quicker. (I hope this doesn't sound like I am teaching you to suck eggs here)

[Kurze]

Your units seem to be in classic 20 strong blocks are you fielding them 5x4 for maximum rank bonus?
Personally against a horde type army I would try using long thin units, 7x2 maximising the amount of attacks you have to cut through their numbers a bit quicker. (I hope this doesn't sound like I am teaching you to suck eggs here) [/quote]

Ha ha! Not at all!

In the bigger games my spearmen get bumped up to 30 strong, 6x5 thats a static res of +4, +5 if they out number, which is often the case. People tend to underestimate the humble spearman, in the right circumstances of course.

[Red...]

In the bigger games my spearmen get bumped up to 30 strong, 6x5 thats a static res of +4, +5 if they out number, which is often the case. People tend to underestimate the humble spearman, in the right circumstances of course.

Add an assassin with either:
Rune of khaine, touch of death and black lotus (+d3 attacks and 20% chance of killing blow)
rune of khaine and manbane (good for monster killing)
rune of khaine only (light option for light troop killing)
manbane and rending stars (chariot killing).
And your warriors will become even more uber potent.

Normally I run a unit of 10 CoK with Dreadlord and BSB, so it was just a nice change from worrying about failing stupidity tests but I do prefer the 2+ save of the knights.

Each to their own. I'm not a big fan of CoKs (too unreliable at getting the charge - I know I'll roll that fatal 11 when I need it least and 14" charge range is poor). 2+ save is nice, but as each model costs over 2x the amount of our best elite infantry, it actually isn't as good as you'd think. But I understand from other dark elf players they can be devastating.

Regardless of whatever you do, by the way, if you're going with a fighting army, you should DEF take a cauldron of blood. Imagine a cold one knight charge with an extra attack (or two if you have hydra banner with them). I once wiped out a unit of 10 orc boar boyz in a single charge by 4 cold one knights through this method

Its the d3 wounds from a S10 hit on a Vamp Lord that sold me on the Executioners axe......

Yes, it's a close run thing between them. I prefer hellebron for her reliable damage - D3 wounds is all well and good, but you only get 4-6 attacks max with a dreadlord (assuming +1 attack from cauldron and +1 from hydra banner) whereas you can get 9-11 attacks with hellebron if you use the same bonuses.

But here's an idea, as you're running a 4,000 point game, why not take both? At that level you can have up to three lords (if I recall right), so you'd even still have a three lord slot... The only difficulty is that you NEED to get the charge with Hellebron - sticking her on a manti is one possibility for that, or you could put her in the same ASF unit as the dreadlord for total overkill

[Dante valentine]

I, like i think all Druchii players, went through a phase of dying a lot when facing Vampire Counts.

The combination of everything being unbreakable and their ability to ressurect models makes standard Dark Elf tactics a little bit worthless (Dark Riders for example - shooting is pointless and even if they win a charge, they are then locked in against an enemy that will beat them and, due ot outnumber, flee! and harpies are lucky to make it into combat against a unit unless your general is within range.)

My best advice would be CoK's - Very hard CoK's at that!

I know many more "professional" players are reluctant to take them due to stupidity, but for me, the sheer hitting power they have on the charge is too good to miss! A Lord and BSB (with +1 attack banner), in a unit at least 7 wide is going to mash pretty much anything that they come up against. If stupidity takes hold of them, yes it is annoying, but must much be risked against the undead.

Either that or jump a hero on dark peg in the middle of the enemies ranks with the ring of hotek, just making sure nothing can charge him! Neither fair nor fun, but effective.

Anyway, rabbled on too long anyway - but congratz on killing his men (again!) and hopefully it will insire you to more CoK and CoC's in future!

Regards

Dante

[Darkdoom]

Just kill the vampire with an assain and enjoy the pain in his face when his army crumbles away (attact with corsairs with an hidden assain he challanged I killed!) THATS the darkelf way!

[Camaris]

I really like this list, and I actually don't think it is as cheesey as you think. I've always felt that the thing that makes BG deathstars so nasty is the fact that they are accompanied by dual hydras, unkillable BSBs, large screens of harpies, and shades with first turn charging assassins. However, your list doesen't have these accompanying elements, and it actually seems to take theme into account. I always immagine fluff BG armies to consist of primarily BG accompanied by the guys that drive the boat, which seems to be the case in your army.

[Mayordaley]

A guy at my local store wrote up a list for the display VC and it has turned into day of the dead in the store! Long story short I have found that CoK's really are excellent against VC. I use two units, working in tandem, and it really helps to have them supporting one or two smallish units of WE's. If nothing else seems to work for you; use Shadowblade.