Druchii.net

id like to run a fairly large unit of cold ones 6-7 as i love the look story and the heavy hitter feel. But like everyone else i fear the stupidity. I am thinking about putting a master in with them or maybe even a dreadlord but my worst fear is that it just makes an even more expensive unit to go stupid. Basiclly im askin if people think thats a good idea or if anyone has any actual experience doing this and how it worked out for them.

Also has anyone actualy tried the medium cavalry version of the dark riders i have this almost morbid curiosity about them.

XII

I currently field a block of 7 CoKs with FC and park a cold one mounted dreadlord and BSB in the unit. It is excellent when it hits and since I nearly always have a CoB, I can really buff the unit nicely. Stupidity is the bane of this unit however and I can usually count on it to go stupid at least once per game (3 times @ LD 10 is my record so far!!). Since I ignore stupidity once I am in combat, I generally try to get the unit into and keep it in combat as soon as possible during a game.

If you truly are worried about stupidity and having a points sink that will wander aimlessly for much of the game, try fielding a couple blocks of 5 with musician (143 points each). That way, you can have a couple of fast moving flanking units that, if buffed by the CoB, can also take on most ranked units over the front and at least one unit will always make it into contact.

For the medium cav version (DRs with shields), you need a couple characters to give them hitting power as they are pretty well worthless without it. However, a unit of DRs with a dreadlord and master is very fast and can roll a unit easily with a flank charge. Throw in 18" charge and fast cav movement rules and they can be running through your opponents lines very quickly. Just as quickly however, they can also die as T3, 4+ save will not offer much protection against magic or missile attacks.

A good way to combat stupidity is the banner of cold blood.

Although its one use only, you can use it to make sure they aren't stupid on the turn when you really need them. Usually I use it on turn 2/3 when i want to get a charge off with them.

Stonecutter wrote: For the medium cav version (DRs with shields) ... and fast cav movement rules

Dark Riders with shields lose their fast cav abilities.

I've been bitten by Stupidity several times when using Cold One Knights, and it's actually a running joke among my friends who are active in the hobby. The Banner of Cold Blood and a Highborn for Leadership 10 are the best ways to combat them in a "standard" list. The Banner of Cold Blood is brilliant insurance, and I always use it when I need to make a crucial charge or don't want my Cold One Knights blundering into an important unit and preventing their ability to move. If you don't object to Special Characters either, Malus's Cold One lets his unit ignore Stupidity. If you run a list uses a Leadership 9 model for general, you're taking much more of a risk with your Cold One Knights.

Personally, I've not suffered from stupidity too much, but I've seen people who have (including in a recent DE vs DE battle where his chariot failed its stupidity just before he got to charge me, woohoo!).

That said, I tend not to field cold ones. With just a 7" move and stupidity, I think they're slow and risky.

However, I'll end on one upbeat note that no one else has mentioned: Malus. Take him and you'll never need to worry again Yes, he's a bit expensive, but he only occupies a hero slot, gets rid of stupidity for the unit, and adds extra resilience to the unit (S5, with re-rolling hits to wound, even in the second round of combat, if I recall right). I've never played him, but I have seen him used to great effect, even chopping apart a nasty unit of Nurgle Knights with nasty exalted hero!

Personally I wouldn't bother taking a Master in the unit as he won't help with stupidity anyway and he's a large points sink.
Instead I would go for two units to give you sme redundancy instead.

With regards to a Draedlord remember he only needs to be nearby the unit for them to use his Leadership. This way you can roll 11 for your Ld test but your Lord can still move around normally.

Pearl of Infinite Bleakness?

Makes the character and his unit immune to psychology, unless Stupidity is exempt from this for any reason.

Tethlis wrote:If you don't object to Special Characters either, Malus's Cold One lets his unit ignore Stupidity.

deathknight27 wrote:However, I'll end on one upbeat note that no one else has mentioned: Malus.

Oh really

Desmodeus wrote:Pearl of Infinite Bleakness?

Makes the character and his unit immune to psychology, unless Stupidity is exempt from this for any reason.

Immune to Psychology and Stupidity no longer have anything to do with one another, as a matter of fact. Immune to Psychology means you ignore Fear, Terror and Panic, but it has no bearing on effects like Stupidity or Hatred.

If you don't object to Special Characters either, Malus's Cold One lets his unit ignore Stupidity.



deathknight27 said:
However, I'll end on one upbeat note that no one else has mentioned: Malus.

Ah, haha, yes indeed. My apologies

Brad wrote:

Stonecutter wrote: For the medium cav version (DRs with shields) ... and fast cav movement rules

Dark Riders with shields lose their fast cav abilities.

Doh, my bad The only time I have seen massed DRs they left the shields at home and, IMHO, the extra mobility from fast cav rules proved far more valuable than the extra +1 to the save.

Dark Riders with shields are not bad at all. I usually keep them cheap, just add the shield and a musician. You will be surprised how much better 4+ AS is... They are pretty good with crossbows too. You can only move 9" and shoot but that is usually plenty.

Run at least 2 units, as always with Dark Riders, the more the better... 2 or 3 units...

Tethlis wrote:

Tethlis wrote:Immune to Psychology and Stupidity no longer have anything to do with one another, as a matter of fact. Immune to Psychology means you ignore Fear, Terror and Panic, but it has no bearing on effects like Stupidity or Hatred.

Bah... I would get the current rulebook (I told you I'd been out of the loop for a while!) but aparently the next edition is schedualed soon. Please tell me that at least Frenzy and Hatred are still counted? If not, they should just call the rule 'Fearless' and be done!

I hadnt thought of the banner of cold blood thats a good idea thank you. And i am going to try Malus but although they may be fun im trying to keep from useing special characters to much as i fear they may become a crutch.

I guess as far as the DR go one armor save probably makes them less useful then otherwise but they would also get to count ranks then...Though i guess i dont see myself try to get ranks with them anyway.

Desmodeus wrote: Please tell me that at least Frenzy and Hatred are still counted? If not, they should just call the rule 'Fearless' and be done!

They are not counted. Frenzied units are, by definition, Immune to Psychology until they lose a round of combat.

Immune to Psychology, Unbreakable and Stubborn are all rules that make troops more brave, but do so in their own way and have very different effects. There are plenty of units that have these rules, as well as one of the rules mentioned (Witch Elves, for example, have Frenzy and Hatred) so they're not mutually exclusive at all.

Hmmm... Fair point.

And don't forget that any spell or item that doesn't work on ItP stuff doesn't work on ItP stuff, and that if you're ItP you can never flee as a charge reaction. Those are important distinctions to being immune to either Panic, Fear, or Terror.

that's true
(try battle normally against vc )
but 5 naked cok are only 135 points
so what's the deal really?
not much more than dark riders
and can still hit pretty well
i almost always field them
they're good if they work and if not it's not a big loss

malus is definately worth using with the unit, although once you unleash tzarkan he becomes a bit of a liability, a big unit of cold ones can prevent it from becoming too much of a problem. Also if you give the cold one unit the always strike first banner malus becomes insane. I personally like to field a big unit of cold one knights with malus and backed up by a caldron of blood and it works very well.

I use a 7 strong unit of CoK with just a muso, and add a a master with PoS and SoM on occasion also on a CO. With a Cob it kicks bottom, and its not too expensive. Naturally you need other hitters as its mostly a subsidiary unit.

Can you swap Tzarkan's power on and off according to battle? so when you charge a unit you switch his power on, and when the enemy flee you take Tzarkan's power off? or is it just you start with his power off, and once you choose to use his power you have them until the end of the battle?

Once you wake the daemon, that's it. He's active until the battle ends or Malus dies.