how to kill a Treeman

[Nachtraaf]

heej guys, a mate of my recently started playing Wood elves after playing skaven for years. in a match last weekend he came up with a treeman.
i might underestimated it ... and that wasn't a pretty sight.

does someone know some decent ways to kill it (1500 or 2000 pt. game.)
hope to see some demonic plans.

cheers

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Calisson.

[Cathel]

heej guys, a mate of my recently started playing Wood elves after playing skaven for years. in a match last weekend he came up with a treeman.
i might underestimated it ... and that wasn't a pretty sight.

A Hydra should work well, them treemen being flamable. though you need to get close through all that Asrai shooting. Since the hydra moves as a skirmisher it has 360 sight for shooting, treeman moves as monster so has 90° sight and should have difficulties charging.
But that is theory since I haven't met any Asrai army yet.

[Auere]

I play against the WE all the time. I am actually writing a tactica on them at this moment for the D.R.A.I.C.H.

I find that a combination of Doombolts, RbTs and regular crossbow fire brings it down over time. Mostly it is just better to avoid it.

The hydra can hold it up for some rounds, but do not expect it to chew through a treeman or break it for that matter. Do NOT try to flame it. The chances of a breath attack going through is toughness, armour and ward is next to nothing.

[Calisson]

Since the hydra moves as a skirmisher it has 360 sight for shooting

No. 90° shooting.
It moves like a skirmisher, but otherwise does everything else as a monster (charges, receives charges, shoots, no character can join...).

[Red...]

2000 pt. game

Dragon lord. Sad but true.

The hydra can hold it up for some rounds, but do not expect it to chew through a treeman or break it for that matter

Yup. Statswise our hydra is simply outgunned.

Do NOT try to flame it. The chances of a breath attack going through is toughness, armour and ward is next to nothing.

Yes, I guess you get a single S5 hit, against a 3+ save (which would then be 5+) and then a 5+ ward. So you would need to get a 5, followed by them rolling 4 or less twice. To do one wound. Meh.

RbTs and regular crossbow fire brings it down over time

Both quite ineffective imo. Even if your reaper hits, it still does just S6 damage, he gets a regen and then it does just D3 wounds, against a 6 wound creature.

Honestly, at 1500 points I'd say the best way to handle it is to avoid it. Move 5 means that you should be able to do that quite easily. Alternatively, you could bathe it in firemagic.

A final alternative is to look at an uber dreadlord on foot with executioners axe. Don't go with a dreadlord on a manticore though (or a master on a manticore of that matter) because his archers will rip that creature to shreds, leaving you with a stranded character (ride to the other side of the board anyone? anyone?)

[Auere]

Fire magic just doesnt cut it because of toughness 6. You will also REALLY be taking dark magic against wood elves! There are other units to worry more about than the treeman.

The so called "uber" dreadlord with the axe is very difficult to get into combat with the treeman.

2 RbTs do not do alot of damage to the treeman, but I find that their presence on the battlefield is often enough to keep the treeman in tjeck. Prolonged shooting will kill the big stick - especially if in collaboration with a rending stars assassin or high volumes of crossbow fire. I have done this on several occasions!

[Dalamar]

Shadow Magic.

Pit of Shades

Treeman silly Initiative (1 or 2?)

Dead Treeman.

Unseen Lurker and Steed of Shadows also greatly help getting off charges against those pesky disappearing elves.

[Dyvim tvar]

Yes, I guess you get a single S5 hit, against a 3+ save (which would then be 5+) and then a 5+ ward. So you would need to get a 5, followed by them rolling 4 or less twice. To do one wound. Meh.

Actually, it's 2 wounds since the Treeman is flammable. So don't pass up the chance to flame if you have nothing better, but it's still not a very good chance of doing anything.

Setting the breath weapon aside, a Hydra is still a pretty good option for at least tying the Treeman up in combat. I have found that a Hydra and a Treeman tend to fight to a stalemate for multiple turns.

If you really want to atually damage a Treeman in combat, a Lord on a Dragon will do the job--as long as the Treeman is not a Treeman Ancient with the Annoyance of Netlings. Then you are setting yourself up for another stalemate situation, and not a good one, since you will have more points tied up than the enemy does. An Assasin with Manbane and Rending Stars is probably your best bet overall, but you have to be careful to keep him in a unit so he doesn't get killed by a Strangleroot attack.

Finally, if you have the Cauldron of Blood in your army, a unit of Executioners with +1 attack can put a hurt on a Treeman if they can overcome Terror and get the charge. Knights can too, but Knight units tend to have few models and can get devastated by the Treeman's attacks back.

[Tethlis]

Dark Elves have a fair number of counters for a Treeman, but there are a lot of variables. Knowing more about your opponent's list, how he used the Treeman, what type of list you usually use, etc. will help us to answer your questions more effectively. For example, a Dreadlord on dragon is a great idea, but not if your opponent's using a Treeman Ancient instead of a regular Treeman. Similarly, the Dreadlord won't help you if your opponent "Treesurfs" the Treeman across the table, hiding him in woods and using Treesinging spells to help deliver the Treeman into combat. Bolt throwers and magic can similarly be ineffective if the Treeman remains hidden.

If the Treeman uses Treesurfing, then you can move any model into base contact with the Treeman to halt the forward movement of the forest. Treesinging can't move a forest over units, so you can literally block off the trees. The major downside here is that a Treeman still has his Strangleroot attack which doesn't require line-of-sight, so he can still damage an hurt any unit you use to block to the forest. The Hydra is a great chioce for slowing down moving forests though; his high toughness, armor and Regeneration can easily shrug off Treesinging.

If your opponent isn't moving the Treeman through forests, then it becomes much easier to deal with. Assuming you're not dealing with an Ancient, then any combat character with decent strength and Pendant can grind the Treeman down over several rounds of combat. For a quick fix, the Hydra can easily tie up the Treeman and keep him locked in place until you can bring in more troops to help break the stalemate. Lastly, bolt thrower fire shouldn't be discounted as a strategy. Hitting on a 2+ within 24 inches, wound on a 4+, and only a 5+ Ward Save can help soften a Treeman before combat. There's a good chance you'll need bolt throwers to help deal with fast cavalry though, so firing single-shots at the Treeman should be a relatively low priority. As Dyvim Tar mentioned, a Rending Star Assassin is good for a few wounds, just watch out for that Strangleroot as it's adept at destroying Shades.

[Madkins]

I've held them up for entire games with the Pendant BSB before.

[Minsc]

Magic
RBT's
Dreadlord with Pendant and S6.
Dreadlord with Executioners Axe.
Manbane Assassins (with Rendingstars as well.)

If it's wounded; a Hydra, Executioners and Cold one Knights can all finnish it. (pref with cauldron blessing active.)

[Red...]

You will also REALLY be taking dark magic against wood elves

Why? I guess chillwind, but I'm still not sold on dark magic against shadow or fire against the asrai...

Actually, it's 2 wounds since the Treeman is flammable. So don't pass up the chance to flame if you have nothing better, but it's still not a very good chance of doing anything.

Ah yes, I forgot

[Thanatoz]

Magic against Asrai:

Fire: pretty useless, as you'll need a 6 to wound the treeman, which he can save on a 4+. With 5's to wound treekin (if I remember correctly), those aren't too great either. And dryads only have one wound, so any magic missile will do against them basically.

Shadow: Only use it when you've got a use for the default spell (Executioner's axe dreadlord), otherwise too small a chance to get Pit of Shades. Some other generally usefull spells, others totally useless.

Dark: chillwind versus archers: hell yes! Anything else has great potential, as the damage dealing is quite good in that lore and their ward saves are ignored by magic attacks, and elves have only T3!

Metal: 3 useful spells: the default, the 2d6 S4 magic missile, and the big one for roasting treeman ancients. Way too situational.

Death: Dark is better I feel.

And the hydra's breath weapon is only a last resort for wounding a treeman, you know how many elves that thing can roast?

Like others said, characters with good protection and a decent magic weapon with high strength works best.

[Auere]

I agree. There are good spells in many lores against wood elves, but chillwind and word of pain are generelly to good to pass. I always take dark magic with all sorceresses against wood elves.

Chillwind: The worlds most effective way of dealing with glade guards and waywatchers

Doombolt: Being S5, it is actually not that bad against forest spirits. I caused two wounds to the treeman with it once.

Bladewind: It isnt that good against WS4 troops - I know. But it is still a desent S4 magic missile, and if you get lucky it is devastating.

Word of Pain: The worlds second most effective way of dealing with glade guards and waywathers :-)

Soulstealer: It is pretty bad against wood elves, but even 2-3 dead waywathers or wardancers are alot of points, and the extra wounds are nice.

Black Horror: Well, it is massively overcosted against wood elves, unless they take eternal guard ofcourse.

[Nachtraaf]

Heej guys, thanks for al the reactions. I defiantly saw some good ideas.
The treeman isn’t an ancient by the way, just a regular Treeman. I’m thinking of taking a noble with the crimson death.
I’m also taking a lvl 2 mage.( and I don’t believe they are overpriced, or weak against other magic heavy army’s, they work perfectly well against armys as skaven or lizardman, in my experience). I will use the lore of darkness.
The rest of the army looks a bit like this (1500 pt.) :
- 2x 5 dark riders, musician and banner ( sometimes i will go for a flank charge and the banner is i.m.o. very useful.
- 20 RxB men or 2x 10 RxB men
- 6 Cold one Knights banner musician
- Hydra
These are usually my basic units ( sometimes without the CoK), I’m not sure witch infantry units i'm going to use.
I do like to use the Black Guards, very reliable.
Perhaps some corsairs with the sea serpent banner.

[Auere]

It was actually a nice discussion, I have implemented many of the ideas in the tactica.


As for the rest of your army, make a new topic with your army list, and I shall give you some advices on how to improve it - not only to take down the treeman, but to take on the entire Wood Elf force.

Focusing to much on the treeman is all your opponent will want you to do. Treemen are by far not the most dangerous wood elf unit.

[Red...]

Perhaps some corsairs with the sea serpent banner.

That's an excellent choice. If you want to make them really nasty against the Asrai then put a master or sorceress in the unit with the ring of darkness. It halves his ballistic skill (rounding up) meaning that he's hitting you on 5 at long range, usually with just S3 and no armour penetration (ie you save on 4+). Not bad at all!

[Mazrim taim]

You could always just break his model so that he can't use it til he gets another one That'll teach those trees to mess with the Druchii

[Babnik]

Unless we dedicate a lot of points to face a treeman, we don't have units to put down such piece of wood!
All solutions above are good but do you really want to use so much energy on 1 unit ? What about wardancers? Dryads? Treekinds?
I have played our degenerated hippies cousins couple of times and I found our hydra very useful against a treeman.
For 175pts, you can block it for at least 2-3 rounds and the rest of your force will wipe out asrai army. Most of the time, the treeman will kill your hydra but battle will be yours.

[Bounce]

I have played a Treeman a couple of times and have found avoidance is usually a good route.

I charged one once with a unit of Knights and Corsairs and lost both units. It's simply too tough for normal troops to tackle.

[Rabidnid]

I have played a Treeman a couple of times and have found avoidance is usually a good route.

I charged one once with a unit of Knights and Corsairs and lost both units. It's simply too tough for normal troops to tackle.

Yeah, kill everything else in the army. Mounted DL with Calendor's bane and potion of strength can hurt it with 2 rounds of S-7

[Kaleth the reaper]

I once killed a treeman with a lone battlestandard bearer (pendant and soulrender). But that was highly unusual I think

[Kheel]

Well, I see one thing that should not be done, do NOT waste a draon lord to take out a puny treeman.
If you have a list with a dragon, there are far better ways to deal with a treeman.

Executioners with a CoB nearby for extra attacks
Assassin with cloak of twilight, manbane and rending star
Bolt throwers
Lore of Shadows

Or just charge it with a infantry unit, should keep it occupied for at least 3 rounds, and then you can use the rest of your forces to take out everything else.