Myself and a friend are going to be in a 3k tourney soon and I was wondering what I could do to stop his list if I have to play him. Assume I have anything from our book at my disposal (I have a little time to get anything else I may need before it starts.)
His List Includes:
Wizard Lord on Pegasus x2
Master Engineer x4 (Puts them with his G.Cannons)
Knightly Order(5) x4
Great Cannon x4
Steam Tank x3
I dont know where to begin to deal with this and was wondering if any fellow Druchii could give me any advice. I've never dealt with the empire before.
VS. Mean 3k Empire List
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
3 steam tanks, 4 cannons, 4 engineers, 2 wizard lords?.... this is a ridiculous list lol. I'd go with shadowblade for all the cannons and for the siege tanks, couple rending stars/manbane assasins throwing ninja stars at them and take 4 repeater bolt throwers. Course if you tool a list just to beat him, I don't know how you will do in the rest of the tournament hah. If special characters aren't allowed go with like 4 units of harpies or something. Also a master on a pegasus isn't bad at all for taking out artillery. Try to position your charge so the overrun will take you into another cannon.
Going a little heavy on the magic might not be a bad idea either. A supreme sorc on a pegasus with a focus familiar can hide behind terrain and cast at the cannons. Getting chillwind on a cannon crew is pretty nice if you can hit the cremen and not the cannon.
Going a little heavy on the magic might not be a bad idea either. A supreme sorc on a pegasus with a focus familiar can hide behind terrain and cast at the cannons. Getting chillwind on a cannon crew is pretty nice if you can hit the cremen and not the cannon.
I'm not overly impressed.
It looks scary and is effective but highly disjointed and I think a few things will be able to take it out quite readily.
#1 Steam Tanks rely on steam points to work (theres always a lot of confusion amongst players) if I want steam points to do anything I need to roll for them. You choose between 1-5 and then roll a die. If the die + steam points chosen = more then current wounds the model take a further wound and doesn't generate any points (you can only have max 5 steam points not 10 as some people think.
So for a to be safe you can only generate 4 steam points without risk. But as the stank takes wounds that risk goes up. With 3 wounds on a stank, leaving it with 7, and wanting to raise 4 steam points then on a 4+d6 roll of 4 or more the stank will suffer another wound. With 3 steam points then a roll of 5-6.
So you don't really need to kill a steam tank to get it out of the game. you do 4-5 wounds and it becomes a lump of metal (just remember you need to take all 10 to get any VPs).
I'd take at least 4 bolt throwers to deal with these, maybe even 6. 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, 2 wounds on average. with 6 RBTs then 4 should hit, 2 wound, 4 wounds. One round of concentrated fire "should" incapacitate a stank.
An assassin or two with manbane and rending stars are another option. 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound (str7), stank with 5+ save. One or two of these guys could again really hurt the stank, plus can get at the lv4s or even take out a unit of knights.
The other option is a Dragon Lord with Caledors bane. Rough math hammer makes it likely you do 2-3 wounds on the charge so he could finish one off or be a last resort if you don't get lucky with the RBTs
The mages, they're on peggies mate, shoot them down with mass RXBs take 20-30 of these guys imho. Or Dark Riders should be able to do it as well. 18" is almost 20" and unless your friend is very careful his peggies should be range, just target the mages.
Cannons- harpies, maybe 3-4 units to match his cannons. Hopefully your friend groups them together (bad choice imho) then you could do with less harpies. If he's smart and keeps a 12" gap between each gun (so on average 3d6 overrun units won't run into another gun) then having 1 harpy square per cannon may be a good idea, mathhammer puts 5 harpies as killing 2-3 crewmen leaving only 1-2 guys left. that plus outnumber should win it for you.
Knights - if he's not taking musicians then just Terror Bomb these guys. His entire army is ld8. Hydra's may not mince them in combat as the knights will get a 3+ save but the dragon lord above will and likely cause some terror/fear checks and at just over 50% chance of rally there are good odds the unit will keep running. Otherwise executioners, COK, multiple attack units (BG w Couldron 7 wide would get 22 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound, should roll 1 or 2 ones. You could even go KB on the BG instead, 20 hits should net you 3 6's.
I'd suggest may need to modify to fit 3k:
Dragon Lord
Couldron
4 lv2 mages
2x10 bowmen
4x5 harpies
3x5 dark riders - muso, RXBs if you can afford
14 BG with ASF banner, FC - assassin tooled for combat
2x7 shades, GW if you want - assassin tooled for shooting
6 RBT
*edit out 2 hydras...*
TBH that should be 3k or more. Maybe add a unit of 6 COK with FC and Standard of Slaughter
It looks scary and is effective but highly disjointed and I think a few things will be able to take it out quite readily.
#1 Steam Tanks rely on steam points to work (theres always a lot of confusion amongst players) if I want steam points to do anything I need to roll for them. You choose between 1-5 and then roll a die. If the die + steam points chosen = more then current wounds the model take a further wound and doesn't generate any points (you can only have max 5 steam points not 10 as some people think.
So for a to be safe you can only generate 4 steam points without risk. But as the stank takes wounds that risk goes up. With 3 wounds on a stank, leaving it with 7, and wanting to raise 4 steam points then on a 4+d6 roll of 4 or more the stank will suffer another wound. With 3 steam points then a roll of 5-6.
So you don't really need to kill a steam tank to get it out of the game. you do 4-5 wounds and it becomes a lump of metal (just remember you need to take all 10 to get any VPs).
I'd take at least 4 bolt throwers to deal with these, maybe even 6. 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, 2 wounds on average. with 6 RBTs then 4 should hit, 2 wound, 4 wounds. One round of concentrated fire "should" incapacitate a stank.
An assassin or two with manbane and rending stars are another option. 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound (str7), stank with 5+ save. One or two of these guys could again really hurt the stank, plus can get at the lv4s or even take out a unit of knights.
The other option is a Dragon Lord with Caledors bane. Rough math hammer makes it likely you do 2-3 wounds on the charge so he could finish one off or be a last resort if you don't get lucky with the RBTs
The mages, they're on peggies mate, shoot them down with mass RXBs take 20-30 of these guys imho. Or Dark Riders should be able to do it as well. 18" is almost 20" and unless your friend is very careful his peggies should be range, just target the mages.
Cannons- harpies, maybe 3-4 units to match his cannons. Hopefully your friend groups them together (bad choice imho) then you could do with less harpies. If he's smart and keeps a 12" gap between each gun (so on average 3d6 overrun units won't run into another gun) then having 1 harpy square per cannon may be a good idea, mathhammer puts 5 harpies as killing 2-3 crewmen leaving only 1-2 guys left. that plus outnumber should win it for you.
Knights - if he's not taking musicians then just Terror Bomb these guys. His entire army is ld8. Hydra's may not mince them in combat as the knights will get a 3+ save but the dragon lord above will and likely cause some terror/fear checks and at just over 50% chance of rally there are good odds the unit will keep running. Otherwise executioners, COK, multiple attack units (BG w Couldron 7 wide would get 22 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound, should roll 1 or 2 ones. You could even go KB on the BG instead, 20 hits should net you 3 6's.
I'd suggest may need to modify to fit 3k:
Dragon Lord
Couldron
4 lv2 mages
2x10 bowmen
4x5 harpies
3x5 dark riders - muso, RXBs if you can afford
14 BG with ASF banner, FC - assassin tooled for combat
2x7 shades, GW if you want - assassin tooled for shooting
6 RBT
*edit out 2 hydras...*
TBH that should be 3k or more. Maybe add a unit of 6 COK with FC and Standard of Slaughter
Not another 1...
W/D/L for 2010
40/7/18
W/D/L for 2010
40/7/18
Why not to take 2 dragonlords?
And put your mages on peggies as well!
I agree with everything else save the BG. Why bother with a BG at all?
Mass RXB is nice as well, and DR RXB to hunt and shoot opponent's mages.
How is the terrain going to be set up?
And put your mages on peggies as well!
I agree with everything else save the BG. Why bother with a BG at all?
Mass RXB is nice as well, and DR RXB to hunt and shoot opponent's mages.
How is the terrain going to be set up?
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Silverheimdall
- Malekith's Best Friend
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I managed 3 wounds from 2 bolt thrower shots followed by 2 failed Steam generation, thus 5 wounds and then thrown in 15 autohit S5 at it, which 7 wounded (5+) and he saved 5 of those.
Ugh.
Steam Tank is annoying, of course the can-opener that is the Executioner Axe would work wonders but that means a Lord on Foot with no Ward and not always a good target for the Axe to put its blade in.
Exec Axe Lord with Shadow Magic Support (Plus cloak of shadows) to make him fly around and destroy all the steam tanks.. just have to hide him from Cannon shots and being charged by other close-by units...
But yeah, 4 S10 Attacks that autohit (so you wound on 2+ with 4 dice) where each succesful wound ignores the Tank's armor and then deals D3 wounds.. The perfect Steam Tank opener.
Ugh.
Steam Tank is annoying, of course the can-opener that is the Executioner Axe would work wonders but that means a Lord on Foot with no Ward and not always a good target for the Axe to put its blade in.
Exec Axe Lord with Shadow Magic Support (Plus cloak of shadows) to make him fly around and destroy all the steam tanks.. just have to hide him from Cannon shots and being charged by other close-by units...
But yeah, 4 S10 Attacks that autohit (so you wound on 2+ with 4 dice) where each succesful wound ignores the Tank's armor and then deals D3 wounds.. The perfect Steam Tank opener.
If you're going to try the Executioner's Axe route, I recommend keeping him in a unit of Corsairs with the Sea Serpent Standard. He gets an extra attack out of it and they can soak up any extra hits that would otherwise fall onto the lord. If you have a Cauldron nearby, don't be afraid to put +1 attack on that unit to give the axe yet another attack. With 6 auto-hitting attacks, he should take out a Steamtank per turn. More if you can set up the over-run properly!
Good luck! That's not a list I'd like to play.
Good luck! That's not a list I'd like to play.
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Silverheimdall
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 2503
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
- Location: Québec, Canucksda.
But odds are the stank would get the charge on the corsairs. some rudimentary math hammer...
4 steam points so 12" charge = 5d3 impact hits = 10 hits at 2+ to wound = 7 wounds = 7 dead.
20x Corsairs (assume 3 ranks, banner) you'll get 4 attacks from the champ at 6+ to wound, 1 wound, should be saved on a 1+AS
Exectioners axe: 4 attacks 2+ so 3 wound = 6 wounds.
yes you'll win the combat at 10CR to 7CR but of course thats if my averages are all rolled (and my averages are probably off). So it's not an entirely sure thing but a good option to go with.
4 steam points so 12" charge = 5d3 impact hits = 10 hits at 2+ to wound = 7 wounds = 7 dead.
20x Corsairs (assume 3 ranks, banner) you'll get 4 attacks from the champ at 6+ to wound, 1 wound, should be saved on a 1+AS
Exectioners axe: 4 attacks 2+ so 3 wound = 6 wounds.
yes you'll win the combat at 10CR to 7CR but of course thats if my averages are all rolled (and my averages are probably off). So it's not an entirely sure thing but a good option to go with.
Not another 1...
W/D/L for 2010
40/7/18
W/D/L for 2010
40/7/18
-
Silverheimdall
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 2503
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
- Location: Québec, Canucksda.