D.R.A.I.C.H.Dwarf tactica, how to open tough, tin cans

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Gramash
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Post by Gramash »

Thanks for the compliment Red...

I really appreciate it.
I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)
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Timz
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Post by Timz »

Auere wrote:Wouldnt it be an idea to engage the anvil with a master bsb? As far as I know, it doesnt work when engaged.


If that was doable, yes.

The anvil requires no LoS to use and has no range limit, so he can place it somewhere almost impossible to reach. It's like arguing that cauldron of blood black guard can easily be countered by killing the cauldron... good luck getting there. Anvil even more secure.
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The warchief
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Post by The warchief »

I know available time to write is an issue but any plans to do a summary of runes and common combinations to expect?
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Post by Gramash »

Common combinations are in my planning but i don't know if a full summary of runes is legal...(does anyone know if i'm allowed to do that?) maybe without point cost or something?
I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)
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Post by Calisson »

Dont write a full summary. If people want to know everything about Dwarves, they'll get a hand on the book.
Don't provide any pts cost for runes: we're not building dwarven army lists.
What is interesting for DE players is to know which rune combos they are more or less likely to face - and how to counter them.

Generally speaking, lengthy quotes or pts costs for individual items are not allowed, because they are covered by GW copyright.
However, fyull copmprehensive analysis are your work ad there is nothing wrong posting them.
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Post by The warchief »

What is interesting for DE players is to know which rune combos they are more or less likely to face - and how to counter them

Sorry I should have been more specific. This is exactly what I was after. I have the Dwarf book and can read the entries, but not being a Dwarf player and having had little exposure to them means I don't know what are common combinations or what works / doesn't work. How to combat them would be a bonus!
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Post by Auere »

I am soon going to be facing an anvil of doom. I just had the chance to read through its rules...


Do dwarves ever activate the ancient power? It is risky, I know - but 2d6 s4 hits on D3 units is just EVIL against the likes of shades, dark riders and harpies. One good roll, and he can more or less clear the table!

Or is it most common to see dwarven players use only the normal power...?
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Gramash
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Post by Gramash »

That is a very hard one :P
because it fully relies on the player himself.
Are special characters allowed? if so prepare for hell...
you can compare the anvil to our hydra... it's pure evil and not even that expensive.

As for the rune combinations, they will come, but please be patient ( if you know some things about dwarves too, don't hesitate to pm me with a piece of your own tactics)
I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)
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Post by Red... »

Do dwarves ever activate the ancient power?


People who take the special character with the anvil will usually do so (3+ rather than 4+ makes a big difference, especially as you can re-roll once per game).

For others its a gamble: it can be quite unpleasant, but has a 50% chance of failure, with potentially damning effects, so I think most dwarf players avoid it unless they NEED it (ie if they are losing and need to take a risk to even up the odds...). 2D6 S4 hits against D3 targets is not actually that evil: That's an average of 7 S4hits against 2 targets: nasty sure, but nowhere near as bad as some of the nastier lores of magic, with much more chance of a miscast!
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Timz
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Post by Timz »

Red... wrote:
Do dwarves ever activate the ancient power?


People who take the special character with the anvil will usually do so (3+ rather than 4+ makes a big difference, especially as you can re-roll once per game).

For others its a gamble: it can be quite unpleasant, but has a 50% chance of failure, with potentially damning effects, so I think most dwarf players avoid it unless they NEED it (ie if they are losing and need to take a risk to even up the odds...). 2D6 S4 hits against D3 targets is not actually that evil: That's an average of 7 S4hits against 2 targets: nasty sure, but nowhere near as bad as some of the nastier lores of magic, with much more chance of a miscast!


It's definitely one of the top 3 spells in the game, if not the #1 in the game. (Although luckily he has no other casters and only 1 anvil total.)

Reasons
w/ ancient power it's
d3 missiles of 2d6 hits. Choose any units on the board to hit with em.
So you can hit two units of dark riders behind forests, each with the equivalent of 2 lightning bolts.
That's an average 4 lightning bolts worth of hits hitting anything that can't be dispelled or scrolled.


On average, if he did it on your dark riders. That'd be 4 of em dead from each unit. Hitting on average 2 units.

He just reduced 2 units of 5 dark riders to 2 units of 1 dark rider on his first turn, completely unavoidable. That's 176 points lost from one spell which can't be stopped.

It's cast on 3+, so it only fails on 1 or 2, but then he also gets a reroll, a 3+ w/ reroll succeeds 89% of the time.

If he uses reroll and fails, it's still only a 1/3rd chance it blows up.

That gives a 3.7% chance of it being destroyed by first shot. Not that risky.

If he uses the regular one, 2+ to cast and smashes down 2 dark riders per turn from anywhere on the board.

Also, if he uses the 3+ one, he could choose 2 reaper bolt throwers. On average it would kill 1.56 crew members from each. So one is completely destroyed and the other has 1 crew left. Not too shabby.

It does cost a good amount of points and use a character slot, so I'd say it gives you a chance to rush with a dragon or something, but that's not true. Dwarf cannons and bolt throwers which hit on 2+ with enhanced bolts can make short work of dragons. Best answer is probably to just spend the points buffing your units so they have enough models to soak up gunfire and still charge.

Black guard super combat troops with a fighty hero can chew through dwarf after dwarf.
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Post by Runax »

Time to put the anvil talk to rest in a complete and concise format:

The Anvil Of Doom

The Anvil of Doom is a upgrade that can be taken by a Runelord (lord choice) It costs a good chunk of points and takes a hero slot as well (similar to a dragon) The anvil gives the runelord a better armor save, and a couple dwarven guards. The anvil and the runelord are utterly immovable by anything, and the runelord will stay with the anvil until he dies. The anvil is Unbreakable. The anvil gives +1 DD, in addition to the +2 for having a runelord and +2 for simply being dwarves. The runelord can still take magic items including several anti-magic runes that can seriously mess up your magic phase. However, many dwarves forgo this option because they think that 7 DD is plenty.

The Power of the Anvil

The anvil's main attraction is its 3 magical powers that it can perform in the shooting phase. These abilities are undispellable. Only one can be performed per shooting phase, and not while the anvil is in combat. The ability takes effect on a 2+ for a normal invocation and a 4+ for a ancient invocation. If this roll is failed, the runelord rolls on a table similar to a warmachine mishap table, with 1 resulting in death.

The Abilities:

The Rune of Oath and Honor:

This ability allows one (non-gyrocopter) dwarf unit to make a move action (a march or charge) When struck with ancient power, it allows d3 units to move.

The Rune of Hearth and Hold:

This ability lets all dwarves reroll failed fear and terror checks. When struck with ancient power, it makes all dwarves immune to fear and terror and allows them to reroll failed panic and break tests. This lasts until the beginning of the dwarf's next shooting phase.

The Rune of Wrath and Ruin:

The nastiest ability the dwarves have, the rune of Wrath and Ruin makes a enemy unit suffer d6 S4 magical shooting hits. Regardless of any casualties inflicted(or not) the unit has its move characteristic halved for the following turn, fleeing or persuing at half speed as well. If the unit flies it merely cannot fly instead. On ancient power, this effects d3 units doing 2d6 hits. The real kicker? This rune does not need LOS, or Range. The anvil can be parked in the farthest corner of the board behind a hill and every last one of his rock hard troops and still work perfectly.

Thorek Ironbrow

Thorek Ironbrow is one of the nastiest special characters around. He clocks in at 505 points, comes with superb armor, an extra helper, and is much better at striking runes. He can use the ancient power on a 3+ and rerolls failures, meaning he almost never fails. This allows for him to sling dozens of S4 hits around while slowing your approaching hoards down to a crawl while the rest of his gunline blasts them to bits. Thorek Gunline is infamous cheese because it is nasty, and is very common in the dwarven tournament scene because of the need to compete with DoC and VC.

Tactics

There is a world of difference on the tactics that people use for the anvil. In general, a normal runelord is more common on lists with many combat blocks and less shootyness. This lets you treat the game more or less how you normally would, but beware that your opponent might see you setting up a flank charge or other nasty movement trick and slow you down with it. Taking out the anvil is a priority, but not the whole game.

Thorek, especially with a dedicated gunline, is a totally different story. Certainly the most powerful cheese that dwarves can bring to the table, Thorek sets the tone of the game for the dwarf player. If your opponent is dedicated to shooting, T3 elves will be in for a lot of hurt. Nasty tactics include slowing your units down with Wrath and Ruin, and then flying in a gyrocopter to march block. You can be looking at crawling your COK towards his guns at a snail's crawl of 3.5" Your opponent will almost certainly use this on your most powerful units, like BG, COK, and Monsters. Taking advantage of the fact that your hammer units move slower, he will probably use the chance to shoot down your screens and aim big guns at any other threats.

Be warned: the anvil needs no LOS or range. It will always be buried behind every last unit he has. Getting to it will mean that you've already slaughtered the rest of his army. Don't count on taking it out early with a lone cavalryman unless you have some good tricks up your sleeve. The runelords are not pushovers in combat, unlike many wizards.

Now that you know what your opponent is likely to try to do to you, let's look at what you can do to make his plans fall to pieces.

-Shooting
My advice is to leave most of your bows at home. If there is one phase dwarves are good at, it is shooting. They have the best war machines in the game, at lower prices than you. They have nasty resilient core archers. Don't play his game, focus on where you can beat him.

-Magic
Resilient to magic as dwarves are, druchii sorcery can still do a good number on them and crack their nasty war machines. Either take none, or take every last sorceress you can and blast them to bits. Lore of Metal is perfect for dwarves, and Dark is always good, especially with chillwind to block his shooting.

-Combat
They have toughness, great SCR, 9 standard LD, and good armor. You have high WS, hatred, and initiative. Take as many great weapons as you can, because you'll almost certainly get the charge. Nasty combat lords and execs can do well, BG are nice but you can leave Hag Greaf behind, you won't be needing it much.

-Movement
This is where you shine. Dwarves don't move. Excepting the gyrocopter, nothing will give you movement trouble unless he uses the anvil's movement power, but even that has its limits. I would advise the fastest army you can muster, with scores of DR, Harpies, and COK. Footmen are fragile against the potent shooting of stunties, so be in their range for the least time possible. Get flank charges to take down his big blocks, his SCR will be nothing to laugh at and dwarves don't run often.

Small notes:
-Kill the gyrocopter, and fast. These are annoying buggers that can roast a lot of elves with a 20" move and a S3 AP breath template.
-Keep your characters out of cannon line of fire. Even if you have a screen the ball can bounce, and if they deliberately over guess then you may have trouble. d6 wound flaming cannonballs can put a big hole in a hydra or dragon.
-His warmachines are where his power is. Kill them if you can, they hurt more than his gunners.

That seems to have diverged a little from a write up on the anvil, but I hope it helps. Note: I am a dwarf player that likes to use a Thorek Gunline at tournaments (anything else gets eaten by DOC/VC, damn unbreakability/ITP) I am afraid of cavalry. I love seeing infantry armies, because they always die before they get to me. Take your COK if you know whats good for you!
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Post by Calisson »

Thanks, Runax, for your participation in this D.R.A.I.C.H. article, hence becoming more collective. Gramash needs just to incorporate it in the first page, or at minimum mention that your post is here in page 2.

One very important note about anvils:
lone characters are immune as long as they are not on a large target.
Too bad for dragon & Manti, however, Peggies are safe, and characters mounted on a DS or CO, or footed characters are safe if not inside a unit. The trouble is that it is the contrary to normal shooting, for which characters need to be inside a unit to get the "look out, Sir/Maa'm" rule.

As a consequence, very large units are needed to withstand both cannonballs and anvil spells without risking a panic test.

However, if you have the habit of playing small units, you need your character to remain inside and risk an anvil panic test or drop below the 5 R&F minimum for the "look out, Sir" while you are within cannon and other shooting LOS.
But if there is enough terrain to hide in/behind, your characters are safer alone.
Especially, your Level 4 with FF will be delighted to get quickly inside a wood, in which she will be out of any shooting LOS, away from gyro's reach, too small to risk any anvil damage and with a lot of time to see slow dwarfs coming to hunt her.
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Gramash
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Post by Gramash »

Thanks for your input Runax,

I will copy (and slightly edit) your piece about the anvil to the first page with you mentioned as source

I'll also add your part Calisson, thanks for the input
I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)
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Timz
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Post by Timz »

The downside of trying to hide a single character against dwarves is, often boards have almost no impassable terrain to stop a cannonball. They go right through forests and most terrain.

Dark elves don't have too many heroes who have no job except to stand around (since a scroll caddy has no use for any scrolls/dispelling against dwarves.)

A cannonball can one-shot your level 4 hiding in that forest.
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Post by Killerk »

I would like to ad to the 3.0 version.

Corsairs, 20-25 are worth taking with the serpent standard and assassin.
They have SDC - I know 6+ save is ...... but dwarven players tend to think that the SDC gives better protection from shooting, if it slips out in conversation that they have frenzy, and there is no chance in hell that they are going to panic, they won't bother shooting at it, preferring to choosing different targets.
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Post by Red... »

Really great piece Runax.

One comment: Thorak Ironbrow doesn't get to re-roll all misses on the anvil, just the first. That's in the dwarf errata.
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Post by Slortor »

Hi Gramash - great article. Very informative.

Just wanted to make a couple of points.

About your summary of the dwarves. 1. Xbows have +1 BS over thunderers, so they are have the same chance of hitting things and with the extra 6" they are at least as good as Thunderers in many players opinions (including the guy I played last night). 2. Correct me if im wrong but all his missile troops wear light armour rather than gromril so a lot of the time his shooting troops will have a 6+ save rather than the 4+ you mentioned. 4+ in combat if they have shields of course but id be expecting to flank most dwarf shooting units so it might not be a problem.

Otherwise extremely comprehensive article.

Last thing to say is that my dreadlord and manticore did manage to take down a 20 man ironbreaker unit with BSB in it. Got the flank charge off and his BSB refused the challenge. My guys went buts and killed 6 between them and he lost by 5 and failed his 1D6 break test. So a note for those of you with ridden monsters in your general list. Dont despair - get behind some cover quick and then with a bit of luck (his anvil failed that turn) they can be lethal.
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Post by Bitterman »

Slortor wrote:1. Xbows have +1 BS over thunderers, so they are have the same chance of hitting things and with the extra 6" they are at least as good as Thunderers in many players opinions (including the guy I played last night).


Surely this is not true. Dwarfs with +1 to hit because of their guns I can accept (even if I think it's stupid), but Dwarfs with BS4? I find that unlikely, it's not like you see many T4 Elves running around after all. Can anyone confirm?
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Post by Timz »

Bitterman wrote:
Slortor wrote:1. Xbows have +1 BS over thunderers, so they are have the same chance of hitting things and with the extra 6" they are at least as good as Thunderers in many players opinions (including the guy I played last night).


Surely this is not true. Dwarfs with +1 to hit because of their guns I can accept (even if I think it's stupid), but Dwarfs with BS4? I find that unlikely, it's not like you see many T4 Elves running around after all. Can anyone confirm?


I think he was saying that because crossbows have 30" range instead of 24", they're roughly as good as the guns which have +1 to hit.

Dwarf shooting troopers are all BS3.

At 30-25" Dwarf Xbows shoot better. (Guns can't shoot at all)
At 24"-16" Guns shoot better. (+1 to hit over crossbows.)
At 15"-13" Guns and Xbows equal (Xbow aren't in long-range but guns are)
At 12"-0" Guns are better.

It's note-worthy that 10 gunmen costs about as much as 13 dwarf xbows.

Neither type of ranged weapon has the ability to move-and-fire, so keep that in mind when fighting against dwarves.
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Post by Red... »

but Dwarfs with BS4? I find that unlikely, it's not like you see many T4 Elves running around after all. Can anyone confirm?


Yup, just got my dwarf book out: crossbowmen are BS3 just like thunderers.

That's a good summary Timz, although you forgot that guns have -2 to AS compared to -1 from crossbows. That's quite important against heavily armoured foes like warriors of chaos or empire.

I'd say the 16"-24" and 0"-12" ranges areone of the most important in the game because
- 16-24" is where the vast majority of shooting happens from (most range weapons and magic missiles are 18-24")
- 0-12" is where all most melee troops will end up when engaged in that part of the battle.

The extra 6" range at the start of the game is nice, but most units will close this gap very quickly, so its at best a free round of shooting on 5s to hit and usually either 3s or 4s to wound.

The 2" between 13" and 15" is trivial really: you'd be quite unlucky to get caught by this, although I do see that it could happen.

My dwarf armies usually field a mix of both quarrellers and thunderers. The quarrellers are good if he decides to hang back with an equally shooty army, whereas the thunderers are good for pounding any heavily armoured foes as they approach.

The nice thing about the two is that it gives you a really good choice between two units types that both have distinct pros and cons. It's an example of good unit choice provision that GW did well :)
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