8th edition 50 > procent core selection, affect us.

[Zenith]

Wondering since the core percentage will go up to 50 > %.
We will need a second or huge carriying case. i thought we could spend some points in a beefed up unit of corsairs, units of consisting 10 dark riders, and perhaps many rpx warriors.

What are your thoughts?


i will be fustrating for bretonnia and WoC

[Red...]

Wondering since the core percentage will go up to 50 > %.

Has this rumour been confirmed?

[Masked jackal]

Practically none of the 8th edition rumors have been confirmed, I'd just wait until it actually comes out to do this kind of planning.

[Ebonyphoenix]

That and the current set of "reliable" rumors says 25%+ core, so I'm not worried about that limit.

[Rabidnid]

Practically none of the 8th edition rumors have been confirmed, I'd just wait until it actually comes out to do this kind of planning.

At this point with the book due in a month or so I'm ignoring the whole thing. I will buy it when it comes out and deal with it then.

[Minsc]

The rumours speak of core beeing 25%+, not 50%+.

And that's no biggie since I usually field 1-2 25man units of Spearelves, 2x10 RxBelves, 2x5 Harpies and 1-2 units of Dark Riders, wich easily make up for 25% of the army.
If I need more core I can simply add more of everything. Dark Elf core is that good tbh.

[Calisson]

Taking the current rumors,

25% max characters
=> limits haracter-heavy builds, such as dragonlord (possible with no support) or magic spam. Not that much a nuisance, since DE list are well playable with less than the max of characters.
Remains to see in the future DE FAQ whether assassins will count towards characters? This would be a huge drawback.

25% min core.
No big deal, as Minc says, our core is good. Only people playing min core troops will have to get more harpies...

50% max special.
Probably not too much a limit, except for the Shade Death Star.

25% max rare.
Not a limit actually at more than 1k, as all our rare choices are quite cheap. That will prevent dual-STank lists for Empire!


So, overall, the most annoying limit may be the characters. That is no big deal as everyone will have the same limit, except if the assassins are included in the characters, in that case the assassin heavy lists are gone.
At present we don't know. Let's wait for the book and the FAQs.

[Brad]

The percentage army selection thing was dropped several editions ago. I can't understand why it would come back. For one thing, none of the currently printed army books will be valid anymore.

It kinda sucked back then, but then again unit champions came out of character percentages which was, of course, a Bad Thing(tm).

[Dalamar]

It's coming back because it was *good* except those editions allowed 50% in heroes... which created herohammer.

[Rabidnid]

It's coming back because it was *good* except those editions allowed 50% in heroes... which created herohammer.

No big deal really apart from killing off the BSB of doom and possibly caddies. A good thing overall I think.

[Brad]

*shrug* Percentage doesn't stop herohammer, it just shifts it to a different focus. Armies with cheap base point values could field wizard-spam that armies with expensive characters can't get enough dispel dice to counter.

But I'm willing to wait and see what really happens before I start jumping up and down and screaming. I learned long ago to never believe anything until I see it for myself - I work in public transport

[Dalamar]

Let the wizard spam come and blow itself up on our Ring of Hotek with the new-improved, deadlier miscast table!

[Borog]

If they keep the slot system, or a version of it, then cheap hero spam is not possible. Or maybe they will just nerf the heroes. If they cannot march with a better armour then 3+, and they only get one save, and R&F get to step up, then a hero's life may be short indeed

[Red...]

Thinking about it I am 98% certain the 50%+ core must be fiction: GW would never embark on a strategy which prevented people from ever fielding (and buying) their more expensive rare and special choices (50% core + 25% characters would leave just 25% for all special and rare choices).

Dalamar is right: %s are better than slots, as long as they get %s right (50% in 5th was just silly).

[Rabidnid]

If they keep the slot system, or a version of it, then cheap hero spam is not possible. Or maybe they will just nerf the heroes. If they cannot march with a better armour then 3+, and they only get one save, and R&F get to step up, then a hero's life may be short indeed

I doubt that the save will include magical saves. If your 3+ save is improved to a 2+ save by the enchanted shield, that's hardly going to stop you from marching. I think its just meant to spay heavy cavalry with barded horses. Most infantry and characters will avoid it, hence the points limit on characters.

[Dread_knight666]

The rumours I have read suggest that the army books are not going to be made invalid and your character selection will be much the same as it is now, but in addition to the four slots etc.. you will also only be allowed 25% for characters. So with both rules in effect, this kills the idea of having a throng of cheap magic casters like goblin shamans, even DE can take 4 casters still.

Even if the core was 50% witch I sincerely doubt it will be, many peoples list probably come close to that anyway and DE core are amazing. My own list off the top of my head has 760pts give or take towards core.

It kinda sucked back then, but then again unit champions came out of character percentages which was, of course, a Bad Thing(tm).

I wonder where Tullaris of Har Ganeth and Kouran will fall in to the big picture and if they will still be treated as unit champions in all respects, or if they will take up character points too? Would people actually use them if they didn't count towards the percentage?

except if the assassins are included in the characters, in that case the assassin heavy lists are gone.
At present we don't know. Let's wait for the book and the FAQs.

It won't bother me if the assassin counts towards your 25% character limit, although it technically goes against what they were trying to achieve by making it not take character slots, this may have been a bad idea in the first place. The assassin is an exceptionally strong character for what you pay, being the only character I can think of that can engage in CC on the first turn without magic, which it can also utilize further. I consider it one of the best for it's value and my opponent regularly complain about it, I can only imagine the gross overuse immediately followed by crying, if they isolate the assassin from the 25% character limit.

[Camaris]

It won't bother me if the assassin counts towards your 25% character limit, although it technically goes against what they were trying to achieve by making it not take character slots, this may have been a bad idea in the first place. The assassin is an exceptionally strong character for what you pay, being the only character I can think of that can engage in CC on the first turn without magic, which it can also utilize further. I consider it one of the best for it's value and my opponent regularly complain about it, I can only imagine the gross overuse immediately followed by crying, if they isolate the assassin from the 25% character limit.

It is also my opinion that the 25% character limit will include things like assassins. (pure speculation, of course) It kind of surprised me when the skaven codex came out and their assassins were not unit upgrades. After all, their are probably a lot more skaven assassins then their are DE ones, but the rules seemed to imply otherwise. However, if DE assassins are included in the 25% limit, it would make sense why skaven assassins are heroes.

I wonder where Tullaris of Har Ganeth and Kouran will fall in to the big picture and if they will still be treated as unit champions in all respects, or if they will take up character points too? Would people actually use them if they didn't count towards the percentage?

I don't think kouran will be fielded all that often due to the fact that a tower master with crimson death is fifty points cheaper, while putting out the same damage output. On the other hand, I think it could possibly become more common to see tower masters with cc magic items as oppose to roh. The only reason I could see kouran getting fielded more is if stubborn somehow gets nerfed and/or unbreakable becomes more ungodly.

I think Tullaris may become more viable, especially if assassins are included in 25% limit. His rules seem pretty solid; his only problem is that he has one wound. However, if we don't have any other choice, he may become a lot more tempting...

[Bounce]

I don't think we have to worry too much about wizard spam. Apart from Goblins most mages are quite expensive. We can almost break our points budget with just 2 Level 2's.
Large numbers of level 2's will also struggle if they don't have any heroes with good leadership to back them up. Plus if back ranks can attack then mages will also be easier to kill,

I think the % for rare needs to be lower. Most armies don't spend that much on it anyway and many armies such as our own can;t spend 500 points on rare for a 2000 point game.
It also gives you more incentive to take underpriced units such as the Hydra which isn;t really good.

[A18no]

Taking the current rumors,

25% min core.
No big deal, as Minc says, our core is good. Only people playing min core troops will have to get more harpies...

But if you consider that harpies don't count in the minimum 3 cores now, I don't think that they will count toward the minimum 25. If it's true, assassin will not be in the character limit, cause you can't choose 25% minimum core in assassin!!

[Tethlis]

It is also my opinion that the 25% character limit will include things like assassins. (pure speculation, of course) It kind of surprised me when the skaven codex came out and their assassins were not unit upgrades. After all, their are probably a lot more skaven assassins then their are DE ones, but the rules seemed to imply otherwise. However, if DE assassins are included in the 25% limit, it would make sense why skaven assassins are heroes.

I'm pretty sure Skaven Assassins are heroes because they realized that making Dark Elf Assassins so readily available was a huge mistake. As a result, they took Skaven Assassins, made them cost quite a bit and take up a Hero choice, and assumed that a 4+ Ward Save and access to the magic items list was enough to keep Skaven players interested (which has proven to not be the case.)

It's important to remember that we may be fielding a lot of Core, but so will other opponents. We can still keep our usual Dark Riders/Harpies/Crossbowmen, but units like Warriors and Corsairs will actually have a great role because their will be other fodder for them to fight as well. If it's true that massive rank bonuses will confer Stubborn or a similar tarpit-esque benefit, then huge units of cheap warriors become even more appealing.

[Zenith]

It is also my opinion that the 25% character limit will include things like assassins. (pure speculation, of course) It kind of surprised me when the skaven codex came out and their assassins were not unit upgrades. After all, their are probably a lot more skaven assassins then their are DE ones, but the rules seemed to imply otherwise. However, if DE assassins are included in the 25% limit, it would make sense why skaven assassins are heroes.

I'm pretty sure Skaven Assassins are heroes because they realized that making Dark Elf Assassins so readily available was a huge mistake. As a result, they took Skaven Assassins, made them cost quite a bit and take up a Hero choice, and assumed that a 4+ Ward Save and access to the magic items list was enough to keep Skaven players interested (which has proven to not be the case.)

They dont field assassins because they still have a habit for not buying them. personaly i think their great , especially for that ridiculous ward!!

It's important to remember that we may be fielding a lot of Core, but so will other opponents. We can still keep our usual Dark Riders/Harpies/Crossbowmen, but units like Warriors and Corsairs will actually have a great role because their will be other fodder for them to fight as well. If it's true that massive rank bonuses will confer Stubborn or a similar tarpit-esque benefit, then huge units of cheap warriors become even more appealing.

Thats right, crap can fight other crap ...
[i]
For the 500 points limit ill take one super buffed lvl 4 sorceress, who gives LD 9 as well..[/i][/b]

[Tethlis]

Thats right, crap can fight other crap ...

Yeah, pretty much. Horde armies are going to be a lot tougher, since their staying power and combat potential will increase. Also, with fewer points to spend on characters, there will be more troops available. Corsairs and Warriors will make a big difference in helping to handle all that volume.

[Kold]

It seems that we will have the % that Calissons wrote and apart slot system:
Special units: no more than 3 units of the same type.
Rare: no more than 2 units of the same type.
Fixing all to the % as well.

[Bitterman]

*shrug* Percentage doesn't stop herohammer, it just shifts it to a different focus. Armies with cheap base point values could field wizard-spam that armies with expensive characters can't get enough dispel dice to counter.

Brilliant point, hadn't thought of that. How many Goblin Shamans can you take for 500 points? Probably quite a few - way more than you can take of your own to stop them.

Granted, the Ring of Hotek will still trip them up (and let's be honest guys - we all know it's really far, far too effective for it's points cost) but I don't just play DEs, I play other armies too, and what do they to to stop that sort of thing if they can't take scroll caddies as they can now?

One possible answer is that MR and other non-dispel-scroll magical defence becomes more prevalent. Things like null tokens might become really useful, and appear in more books. Which is fine, except the multi-Goblin-Herohammer-list-of-doom will just cast the spells that aren't affected by MR, or cast them at things that don't have it.

[Dalamar]

And miscast more often than the speed these rumours come out at.
Magic phase will change *completely*. For all we know having more than X wizard in close vicinity might be detrimental to their mental stability.