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D.R.A.I.C.H. Beating Warriors of Chaos (7th ed) 
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Corsair
Corsair
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
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Location: Hag Graef
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OK, guys, let's remain constructive.
And don't let the chaos gods take power of our souls!

I think that everyone can agree that Red did an aoutstanding job in covering in all these aspects with so much details!
Writing a large article, well presented as it is, requires a lot of work.
Making it comprehensive and mistake-proof is all but impossible.
Many thanks for the benevolent D.netters who give a help towards a better article and kudos to the one who had the courage to write it in the first place!
For sure it is several magnitudes better than the previous collection of threads linked in the D.R.A.I.C.H. that this single article will replace.

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Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:16 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:20 am
Posts: 21
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Sir Red,

My Brother !
I won my friend (Warrior of Chaos) today!!! Yeah !! Finally...!!!!!!
we play 2000pts, 6turns.

i lost 20harpies, 20RXB, that's all, and it is just about...420pts.

and i killed 10xBarbarian x 3units, 5Chaos Knight x 3units, a Chaos Wizard...that is about 900pts...

only 5knight and Lord of end Time remain on battle field.

heheh, his Lord of End Time never get into Close Combat, thanks for my harpies....and your article & advice!!

End of Report!

Your fans,

Pink.


Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:00 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:20 am
Posts: 21
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Enclose my Army list:

1997pts.

Nake Death Hag COB and she is General

Master with POK and Soulrender on foot without any armour.(Join Black Guard)

Master with Great Weapon / Armour Darkness / Immune Psy Pearl (Join Warrior)

Sorceress lv1 with 2 scroll (Join Warrior)

RXB x 10 (No Shield)
RXB x 10 (No Shield)
Warrior, FC, War Banner, (No Shield) x 18
Harpies x5
Harpies x5
Harpies x5
Harpies x5

COK x5, Champion with Rink of Hotek
Black Guard, FC, ASF Banner, Crimson Death x 13

RBT x2
Honey Hydra x1


Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:46 pm
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
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Location: Baltimore
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Thanks all,

Sorry if I was a bit sensitive on Friday: it had been a long week. I do very much appreciate the feedback and will incorporate accordingly (hoping to do this in the next few days).

Olderplayer: yes, I def hadn't considered the role of Dragon Ogres against heavy cavalry, I can see they would be a very useful tool for chomping through their armour saves; I can also see that while not always as powerful as Chaos Knights, they are nonetheless pretty perilous to face. I think that when our ranked up infantry is prepared for them, we can take them, but we're often not.

Minsc: yes, sorry for being touchy, the changes you identified are very helpful and it will, as you say, benefit players to have all of the rules correct. Many thanks for taking the time to go through it all and spot them, it is much appreciated :)

The Virgin Forest: Thanks for the additional points and perspective: I agree with your points (I had not considered the Jugger BSB, sounds very potent!) and will add in asap.

Calisson: Thanks as ever :) D.Net is lucky to have you!

Arpink: Excellent news on the win, many congratulations! I'm glad you were able to give Archaon the treatment he deserved (I can't think of a much better way to insult the Lord of End Time than completely ignoring him: the Dark Elf way of saying "you're so far beneath us that we don't even need to bother fighting you!".

The list you put together looks very strong! Let you dictate the battle and get the win. Well done :)


Anyway, hope to have some edits etc done soon. Feel free to add more comments etc as everything is helpful!

Thanks :)

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Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:38 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:15 pm
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As a WOC player, I found this a good read to help find any weaknesses in my army. Very much appreciated.

To help with your edit, Throgg does not have stupidity :twisted: Which makes him even that much more dangerous!

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Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:42 pm
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Many thanks Professor :)

Yes, you're right, I hadn't noticed that the stupidity rule was missing from his profile, that does indeed make him even nastier.

But he doesn't have a special rule negating stupidity for the unit he's in: so presumably if he's with a bunch of trolls he's still bound by their stupidity rolls.

I suppose the irony is that he therefore works much better with a unit of non-stupid ogres (who also have M6) than stupid trolls, or as a single monstrous character by himself.

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Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:51 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:39 am
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Good article...

... reading it is depressing >< Lots of people play WoC in my area.


Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:12 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Posts: 890
Location: Kittenmarsh
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Can we also discuss the cheese bait that is

about 40 or 50 Warriors or Chosen (no joke, it took up half the army)
Horsemen or Knights (depending on the level of game), only took this once, but it's mainly flank or distraction.
A HellCannon or 2 (depending on the level of game)
10-12 warhounds
2 War shrine
Standard (not even the BSB!) of Ruin which gives a -1 to...something we need, but i forget what right now
Tzeench Sorcerer General in the Warriors

In 6 turns, with the WS, it makes it a tough nut to even get points on. The banner takes a point away, the Sgt alows them to "raise eye of chaos rolls one" but can't get the same blessing again. the throes of passion hurts a bit- but honestly, 40 or 50 Warriors/Chosen PERIOD makes it hard to take out the entire unit out for VP

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Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:01 am
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The Guiding Eye
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Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
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Hey L1qw1d, this article was started in April 10' and the post before yours was also from April - thus it was a previous to 8th edition being brought out and thus no uber units of Marauders or Hordes or anything.

Maybe you or perhaps Red... would like to update it? Certainly Warriors of Chaos have gained a LOT from the new 8th Ed rules and are serious power contenders for the titles of 'most gained from new rules'. I think it would be better to start a new thread to pop into the 8th ed. DRAICH.

At a pinch though, Shadow and Death or Shadow and Dark can rent huge dents in massive units (Miasma + Purple = dead Tzeentch Chosen with 3+ ward saves, Enfeeble + Black Horror = dead Chaos Warriors (even an average roll of 2 on the D3 means two thirds of their unit dies ;)) OR for the REALLY big Marauder unit, the Withering and Soul stealer owns them in droves (an average roll on the withering will make them T1 so that even a unit of 60 marauders will be reduced to a more managable unit of 20... and your sorceress's wounds will love it ;))

Anyway thats some food for thought...

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Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:49 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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In my most recent game with Warriors of Chaos, I wasn't facing 40-50 Warriors, but I still had to deal with 25+ Warriors with character support and 20+ Chosen, similarly with character support. I pulled off the win by killing everything in the army except those two units, offering them tempting cheap spearmen and crossbow units as my main "battle line" while gradually backing up/retreating away from them and sending my best troops around the flanks to score the easy Victory Points.

The main advantage we have in fighting those kinds of big units is that they are VERY slow. Even without 7th edition marchblocking, they're only realistically looking at a couple of combats per game once they get a cross the table.

Similarly, I have had virtually zero luck with Miasma/Pit of Shades or similar setups. It doesn't take a genius for the Chaos player to spot what you're trying to do, and you can bet he'll throw everything he has at dispelling Miasma so he's testing for Pit/Sun on his high Initiative, or possibly forcing you to fail to cast Pit/Sun if you throw too many dice at Miasma.

I've had good success sending Cold One Knights/Hydras/Black Guard after marauders, marauder horsemen, Hellcannons, Chaos Knights and other comparatively easy sources of Victory Points. It's still a challenge, but it's better than sending your units piecemeal into a Warrior or Chosen meatgrinder.

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Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:17 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:50 pm
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for my guy, he had fully half of his army set into the bulk walkers- the thing that i did the math on was: he sent his shrines into my tar pit (basically one wound to each vs one or 2 lost a round after all was said & done), but by my math and math hammer, if I shot him 30 times, it only knocks off maybe a guy or 2. it's a nasty pyrrhic victory

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Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:18 am
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Generalissimo
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Wow, hadn't expected to see this thread pop up again anytime soon! :P

In an ideal world I'd like to update this article (or redo it, depending on which is easier) for 8th edition, but to be honest I've not really yet played enough games to make my contribution useful (my gaming group has been mostly focused on Warmachine for the past 9 months or so (Cygnar for the Win!!!), and the few games of warhammer I have been eeking in have mostly involved my dark elves versus non chaos forces - I've played just one game involving WoC and that was my WoC force used as as my second game of 8th ed versus an ogre player's first game of 8th ed... most convincing whitewash win I've ever had the luck to enjoy, but it didn't exactly school me in the finer points of WoC in 8th!).

So, I guess what I'm getting at is that if someone else wants to update this article (or redo it) for 8th edition, please feel free. I'm, sadly, not going to be able to do it in the near future.

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Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:15 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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For the most part, the article just needs to have its emphasis shifted. Marauders are no longer a joke, but a valid and extremely dangerous, point-efficient unit choice. Warriors and Chosen are no longer a novelty that might have a shield or a halberd and should be avoided... They're both fearsome, mainstay combat blocks that appear in virtually all WoC lists. Ditto Hellcannon; they've gained newfound relevance under the 8th edition ruleset.

Similarly, the 3+ Ward Save Chosen could be an article unto themselves.

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Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:18 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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they make Baby Khaine cry. trust me. They blew my mathhammer out of the water with about 20 hits hitting, and lucky roll for 11 wounds on the unit. AS removed only 3, but the ward? all but ONE lived

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:40 am
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