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8th edition: Various Character Builds 
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Generalissimo
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No, Crimson Death is 25.

It's actually even better value in 8th ed than it was in 7th ed because it doesn't confer always strikes last (unlike great weapons), meaning that your initiative 7/8 hero is almost certainly going to strike first with a S6 weapon, all for just 25 points!

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Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:17 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:57 pm
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Lord Tsunami wrote:
"midnight dreadlord" has way over 100p of magic items ;)


No he is isn't. It's right at 100. As to your second comment, Crimson Death is way better, imo, especially with the armor. I see very few cases where I'd actually take the whip, unless I HAD to have a certain shield.


Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:22 pm
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I've found a pretty reliable DP Master build that hasn't let me down. It's mainly used to hunt WM and massive gunlines, it's still a helpful CR generator too, but ideally there to hunt WM and gunlines, maybe the odd lone monster to hold it off.

Master - 190
Heavy Armour, Shield, SDC
Whip of Agony, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Seed of Renewal
DP

So we have a 1+ AS, 2+ward against fire, 6+regen and five str5 AP hits plus two from DP on the charge (if you drink the potion) plus immune to psych. OM NOM NOM

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:57 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Isryion wrote:
...Crimson Death is way better, imo, especially with the armor...


its not really an "opinion". the maths says that WoA will cause more wounds on anything that is not T5-T7. dont forget it gained +1A. But yes, if you are planning to fight stuff with that toughness, CD will do better, though id hesitate to send my lord in to go toe to toe with such a foe without PoK.

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Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:45 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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It is an opinion because how it and your dreadlord are used are situational, and where the versatility of the CD fits into an army is absolutely opinion when compared with the WoA.

I'd argue that to some degree it's still 7th Edition thinking if a player uses a 200+ pt. dreadlord to kill T3 models. Any other troop type you have can do it more cost effectively. No doubt the WoA is superior to CD in the case of T3 models.

I ran the math for T4, and, to be honest, it's negligible.

Assuming 3s to hit in the first round:

WOA = 3.3 hits, reroll 1.7 =1.1, so 4.5 hits. = 2.97 wounds
CD= 2.4 hits, reroll 1.6 = 1.1, so 3.5 hits = 2.9 wounds.

In terms of percentages of a single attack against T4:

%p/attack to wound= each attack (again at 3s) has an 88% chance to hit.

The WoA .88 x .66 = a 58% chance to wound p/attack.
The CD has a 73% chance to wound p/attack.

The importance of those numbers means that the CD is going to be far more reliable against T4 opponents than the WoA. While I've run enough numbers, I'd guess that the while the WoA has a chance to do more wounds, the actual distribution of CD leans higher (more wounds more reliably), but I could be wrong about that.



People often rely on the base average, but it really doesn't tell the whole story.


Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:23 pm
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I used the "Lone Guard At The Gate" last night against an Ogre Tyrant and a large unit of 9 Ironguts. Amazing. I charged the unit and challenged the Tyrant right away and kept the entire unit locked for 3 turns without suffering a wound. By turn 3, the rest of my army had finished off his other units and piled into the combat. Wiped out the tyrant and his unit when I made him break.

However, when I showed my friend my character build at the end of the game he stated that I could not combine the Dragonhelm with regular heavy armour as those were both considered "armour". He said that the book only recognised 2 types of items under the armour category (i.e.: armour and shield). He stated that since my dreadlord already had both, I could not have the Helm or I would have to drop the Heavy armour or the shield. I think he is wrong but as I am no expert in the rules, I would like to get you insight on this.

Comments?


Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:11 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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Lord Tsunami wrote:
though id hesitate to send my lord in to go toe to toe with such a foe without PoK.


Blood Armour or AoD- save your PoK for your Sorceress, since they have no armour option. and you lose melee on a 6 anyway

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Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:02 pm
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L1qw1d wrote:
Lord Tsunami wrote:
though id hesitate to send my lord in to go toe to toe with such a foe without PoK.


Blood Armour or AoD- save your PoK for your Sorceress, since they have no armour option. and you lose melee on a 6 anyway


What I've always done. Give them one of the 4+ wards if your that way inclinded.

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Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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I do have one Query- how do you think we can make the MCHammer build a BSB? I wish we could work something out for a Master for it.

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Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:14 pm
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CappenVerra wrote:
I used the "Lone Guard At The Gate" last night against an Ogre Tyrant and a large unit of 9 Ironguts. Amazing. I charged the unit and challenged the Tyrant right away and kept the entire unit locked for 3 turns without suffering a wound. By turn 3, the rest of my army had finished off his other units and piled into the combat. Wiped out the tyrant and his unit when I made him break.

However, when I showed my friend my character build at the end of the game he stated that I could not combine the Dragonhelm with regular heavy armour as those were both considered "armour". He said that the book only recognised 2 types of items under the armour category (i.e.: armour and shield). He stated that since my dreadlord already had both, I could not have the Helm or I would have to drop the Heavy armour or the shield. I think he is wrong but as I am no expert in the rules, I would like to get you insight on this.

Comments?


Yes, tell your friend he's wrong. You can have only 1 piece of magical armour but you can combine it with as much mundane armour as you're allowed. The dragonhelm is an additionl piece of armour, zo you can get the entire mundane kit for your character. Though only 1 of each piece, so no magical heavy armour and a normal set of heavy armour. Also, your total armoursave can't exceed 1+, no matter how many pieces of armour you take with you.


Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:12 pm
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Isryion wrote:
The importance of those numbers means that the CD is going to be far more reliable against T4 opponents than the WoA. While I've run enough numbers, I'd guess that the while the WoA has a chance to do more wounds, the actual distribution of CD leans higher (more wounds more reliably), but I could be wrong about that.

/sigh


L1qw1d wrote:
Blood Armour or AoD- save your PoK for your Sorceress, since they have no armour option. and you lose melee on a 6 anyway

/sigh

dont know why i even bother...


I have a rule of thumb: if i have a lvl 4 sorceress i give her PoK, so she becomes "immortal", BUT if i want an "immortal" fighter (to hold up the enemy, or to face their dragon mounted characters or whatnot) i instead use two (or one) lvl 2 sorceresses and just hope they wont be killed. a 4+ ward save is good, yes, but it cant be relied on in the way that PoK can, hence i tend to stay away from it.

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Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:56 am
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Generalissimo
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Sloeberjong is right: thats actually why they make dragon helm a helmet rather than a shield! :)

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Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:23 am
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Being equipped with PoK doesn't necessarily make any character immortal. They're much harder to kill if the attack is stronger, but if you're being hit attacks, commonly spells, that have no strength value, then you're screwed. With that idea in mind, I don't always rely on PoK, especially as the only form of defense against attacks for any certain character. A DL given 1+ AS of some form added with PoK is good, but there are times where I rather a 4+ ward or regen so I always have some form of save regardless of the chance of saving them. Same deal if it's with a lv4, but I'm actually running both my lv2 and lv4 without any form of protection. The lv4 just soul steals her wounds back from a nearby unit using dark magic. I just make sure they're safe from harm, usually the best approach. A combat DL that's going to be your general will find the PoK more useful than a lv4 who isn't going to be risking her neck in the front lines.

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What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:17 am
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Generalissimo
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Once all the ideas in this have developed, it would be really nice to see this all cleaned up and presented. There are lots of really great suggestions in this thread, but it's becoming a bit cumbersome to read through them in the way that they are presented.

Anyway, two modified build suggestions:

Super-bomber-woman (variant of the 'the mage bomb')
- Level 1 sorceress
- Ring of Hotek
- Earthing Rod
- Dark Pegasus
200 points

This bad girl is made for flying between/behind the enemies lines and moving within 1" behind or beside her target unit(s). In the magic phase she casts her spell (preferably a really nasty one) using ALL of the magic dice you have available. Odds are that you will not only succeed in casting it, but that your score will be too high for your opponent to dispel it AND you will get a miscast (due to the ring). She then gets to roll on the miscast table (with a re-roll in case you get a score that you don't want) and hopefully do a ton of damage to the victim unit(s) that she is next to. Even though she will probably take a S10 hit, this will only cause a single wound and she has 3 (due to the peggy), so can do this two more times!

It's a bit extreme, but could be lots of fun, especially against an elite heavy army (that unit of Chaos Knights just won't know what hit em!).


Horselord Guardian (variant of 'Lone Guard at the Gate)':
- Dreadlord
- Crown of Command
- Armour of Eternal Servitude
- Dragonpearl
- Beserker sword.
- Heavy armour, shield and sea dragon cloak
- Dark Steed
268 points

This guy is stubborn, permanently immune to psych, 2+/1+ save, a 4+ regen save versus non fire attacks and a 2+ ward again fire attacks, doesn't have stupidity (like the previous build) and gets +1 attack to boot. He's a combi of several other builds suggested on here, but I do think he's probably the best for this role :)


Edit: whoops, forgot to add the 'horse' to the Horselord Guardian. Added now.

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Last edited by Red... on Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:51 am
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Noble
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Hoorah for the contributions! My hat (if I wore one) is off to you all. I'll go through and update with the various builds since my last update later tonight (its not even 9am here).

I will probably begin making a polling topic later to start moving some of the Hypothetical Builds to a Confirmed status. I'll post a link in my OP when this occurs.

Thanks for the help and contributions.

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"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:45 pm
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Note that mage bombs have a 50% of dieing outright if they roll a 2-4 on the MC table. So keep them as cheap as possible in case you die outright before you run out of lives ;)

Other than that, Red, I have to say your build is very extreme, using RoH on the mage bomb itself haha.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:13 pm
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Esp considering you need to roll more dice to achieve effectiveness of some mages, and lose RoH after. hope you're taking out like... a mage and cannons and a hydra and any flying monkeys that they may have all @ once !

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Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 11:10 pm
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anybody try the beast slayer

Master
Dark Steed
PoK
Soulrender
Points: 142

he is cheap and should do some good generally ya it is a waste of his initiative but he should knock some beast down (like dragons =D). you could give him some armor but i think it is wasted on monster hunting as they will usually negate it but for 8 points you can give him a 2 plus (cloak included) if you want to be protected from shooting.

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Originally posted by CasaHouse:You're arguing realism in a game where skaven can use an unstable radioactive stone like cocaine, Lizards can shoot blowpipes without lips, Trolls can regrow severed heads, and some knights' faith can make cannonballs bounce off them like tennis balls. But no! They shouldn't be able to repeatedly use lances! That just wouldn't be realistic enough!


Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:58 pm
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Has anyone just tried the combo of RoD/AoD? What major benefit did it have (if any)?

also: I think it's interesting there are 2 Biting Blades :D lol

OH! I was screwing around with this guy:
AoD
BDE
Hydra's Teeth
Luckstone

Basically as a joke: Send him in against a unit that isn't AP; he has to last 2 rounds, so BDE to get the T6 for the first, with his 1+ Armour save. Second Round Throw the Hydra's Teeth at anything left standing or nearby. If you DO manage to roll the 1, you have the Luckstone to try it one more time. A touch expensive, but you only have to spend 6 more points to give him a hand weapon to top him out @ 246

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Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:43 pm
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Lance if you want a beast slayer, you might as well take a DL with Executioner Axe. You're going to striking last with that Master build anyway, so you might as well upgrade to the bigger full time beast slayer weapon. You'll want to support him with some magic buffers like improve toughness or reduce the monster's WS with hex to ensure he survives. But if you like to be risky you can always charge in without aid, you're likely to emerge with one wound remaining. Dragons will be wary of you, it's literally kill or be killed for them. You dish out four S10 attacks wounding at D3 each, there's only about a 50-60pt difference between yours and mine below. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying yours is horrid, it's just a DL with Executioner Axe is much more efficient at chopping monsters since we both strike last, at the cost of less armored protection.

Something along the lines of
DL - it's about 250ish, can't remember the cost of HA and Shield on a lord (shows how often i take one ;))
SDC, HA
Executioner Axe, Potion of Toughness

I believe that totals 100pts exact in magic items (don't have books on me atm). Though you'll want a second DL to act as your general because this guy is badly protected, you CAN risk having him as your general. You'd just hide him in the middle of your army afterwards as a support character, granting all nearby DE units ld10. He's especially vulnerable if you're going to take that toughness potion over Blood Armour. The toughness potion is there to see you survive the engaged monster so you can lay the smack down on it. Blood Armour will require you to farm some weak enemies for the 1+ AS before you engage the monster(s). It'll be more helpful in the long run and you won't really need a second DL as general, but you generally want to neuter that beast before it chomps a significant chunk of your army, which involves going straight for it, meaning you're walking up with a 4+ AS. A common S5 hit will see you take 6+AS. Great big dragons with S6 hits will squash you unless they fluff their many many hitting on 4+ attacks.

Note this guy is purely just for taking out Monsters, and most probably won't last more than one combat round unless the monster deals one to no damage to you.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Last edited by Meteor on Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:07 am
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Executioner
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Oh btw, unless you guys play illegally, you can't take both a Hydras Teeth and a BDE because they're both Enchanted Items :(

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:08 am
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Warrior

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 11:10 pm
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ya I know and your right Meteor he is the best beast killer we have but i needed something in my hero slot as my supreme sorceress takes up most of my points =( so as far as a hero level goes do you think he would do well?

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Originally posted by CasaHouse:You're arguing realism in a game where skaven can use an unstable radioactive stone like cocaine, Lizards can shoot blowpipes without lips, Trolls can regrow severed heads, and some knights' faith can make cannonballs bounce off them like tennis balls. But no! They shouldn't be able to repeatedly use lances! That just wouldn't be realistic enough!


Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:52 am
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Yea, that was the other thing at the back of my mind. If you play a 2500pt game, then you can cram in both that DL (maybe one piece of armor less) and a supreme sorc.

Regardless, for a budget monster slayer, yours looks good. He'll be well protected against all those nasty S5 and S6 hits, though hitting three times and wounding commonly on a 4+, you'll be locked in combat for at least three rounds of combat before the beast will fall. Unless you fall before then. You should give him the full set of mundane armour too, because other wise, you're going to get killed by measly S3 arrows ;) for ten points you'll be well protected all round except for no str armor ignoring attacks. Yours will be suitable for prolonged combat against monsters, and have the power to hurt it a few times each round. There's nothing else in the army book or common item book that, for 50pts, will give you the one hit KO punch you want, or good protection to boot. If you have the points, consider a DP for him, so you could fly straight at the beast, have an extra wound, and two extra S5/S4 attacks each round.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:20 am
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Warrior

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 11:10 pm
Posts: 57
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So how about this for a unit running on an extreme flank out of bsb or lord range.

Master
Beastmaster's Scourge
Sea Dragon Cloak
Blood Armor
Magic res 2
potion of foolishness? I forgot what this does i think it giver charge attacks when used
Points: 140

he is a bit pricey but nice at four str 4 ap 2 attacks a turn he should mow down light infantry. like i said he is more for support on an extreme flank for a possible unit of warrior or crossbowmen but at that point i would drop the potion and magic res for the guiding eye and seed's of rebirth then throw a crossbow on him. the sea dragon cloak isn't really necessary but it is nice to have if you have the extra points.

_________________
Originally posted by CasaHouse:You're arguing realism in a game where skaven can use an unstable radioactive stone like cocaine, Lizards can shoot blowpipes without lips, Trolls can regrow severed heads, and some knights' faith can make cannonballs bounce off them like tennis balls. But no! They shouldn't be able to repeatedly use lances! That just wouldn't be realistic enough!


Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:54 am
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yea the potion gives devastating charge (+1 A on the charge) and immune to psychology for the turn.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:56 am
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